re: Church of England Priests Say Premarital, Gay Sex Not Immoral

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I think I've went down the conversational path you've wanted me to long enough. Do you have an argument as to why atheism necessarily leads to nihilism or not?

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That's the discussion we're having. Nihilism is just "nothing really matters", especially values. Logically those matter only if there's something that transcends the material world, and atheists don't accept that anything transcends the material world.

I'm not even sure why it requires an argument; it's Philosophy 101. Absent the supernatural nihilism is all there is. If you want to reject it (and I hope everybody does) then you no longer get to claim you're purely rational. You have a made-up belief system just like theists.

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"Rah rah personal freedom and liberty, unless I don't like it."

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"Personal freedom" is a concept of governance, not religion. A religion can be as authoritarian as its adherents will tolerate.

One element of "personal freedom" is the freedom to follow an authoritarian religion, if you wish.

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"Fornication is quite simply sex outside of marriage, and the Bible is littered with scriptures condemning it. It is the same as adultery.

God has one plan for mankind, and it’s laid out also throughout scripture, and that is for marriage, not shacking up, or sleeping around, regardless of if it’s with the opposite or same sex."

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Very well said.

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Except that it is textually wrong. See above.

The Anglicans and the Episcopalians aren’t Christians.

End of times

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Why would someone choose to be attracted to something that they're not naturally attracted too?

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Obviously something influences them, unless the "gay gene" has been found then nature pushes heterosexuality. I know gay people that have told me they were molested by men as children and they believe that took them down that path as it was their first true sexual experiences. Been also told that lack of a father kind of gave them "Daddy issues."

All in all, all you are doing is trying to justify something that is neither natural, nor Biblical which I know you don't care about, but the Bible proves that this isn't a new societal concern. But its destructive force was known and seen 100s of years ago, so needed to be "kept in the closet"

I'm a grown man that wasn't indoctrinated sexually at a young age. Parents didn't hide life stuff from us, but didn't make a big deal of it. With that said, I'm able to handle seeing or talking about things that I don't like. And I'm able to deal with them properly as im secure in what is right and wrong. Though I'm a sinner, I at the least know what I'm doing is wrong and deal with God on it. I don't try to normalize it to find "acceptance" for my sin. Thats a major issue today with the path this nation is going. Kids are being taught sin is ok, but not seeing the negative side to it.

The major issue with the normalization today is how it has gotten out of the adult world and is being pushed onto children. Chopping off a child's breast or penis and putting them on blockers is not natural or "born that way". And the normalization of standard homosexuality has gotten us to this point. That's the biggest issue that you arent wanting to wrap your head around.

In a nut shell...You can't dispute that it's a positive for society as whole, so you are falling back on some kind of "feels" and/or "it doesn't affect you none so leave them alone" approach.

And this is why I left the Episcopal church...they have gone full liberal on pretty much everything and the comment "Anglican priests think Church teaching should fall more in line with public opinion" is not how it is supposed to work.

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It was the view of most Protestants in most countries in the early generations of the Reformation

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So, for centuries this was the view of the C of E - that the Pope was the Anti Christ. They erased that from their writings after a long time. They also used to execute Catholic Priests, thank God they halted that as well.

Sir Thomas More was executed because he would not join the C of E. The C of E disagrees with the Catholics on some very important Sacraments.

Your statement that the RCC and the C of E are similar is wrong. They may wear similar official clothing that's different from what, say, and American Baptist Pastor would wear, that's the only part that is similar.

In substance - in the content of their Catechism and theological beliefs - the C of E is very Protestant and not at all Roman Catholic.

THAT IS MY ARGUMENT, Good Sir!!

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I'm just telling you that if you've come up with some value system that you think is worth living your life by, you're no more rational than a theist.

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You said a bit more than that, but fine.

No more rational than a theist in that one respect, yes. But surely we can agree that whether someone is overall a rational person doesn't hinge on this one, very specific, question.