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China to test 3nm EUV lithography machine that was developed by Huawei
Posted on 3/19/25 at 10:43 am
Posted on 3/19/25 at 10:43 am
If this information is accurate it would make sense why Mark Halperin said a month ago that people close to the Trump Administration were telling him President Trump was willing to make a deal on Taiwan for a better Trade Deal with China. I am sure we know about this new EUV lithography machine that China developed which would give China complete control over their chip supply chain.
"If this is real it will be China surpassing on semi instead of catching up.
Based on this video, China's 3nm EUV lithography machine will start trial production in the third quarter and mass production in 2026.
The 3nm EUV lithography machine was developed by Huawei by integrating technologies from related domestic units. The equipment is located at Huawei's Songshan Lake base.
China's lithography machine technology route uses LDP high-voltage discharge tin vapor luminescence technology, which is a brand-new technology route and has been patented.
This is different from the LPP laser tinning solution that ASML (ASM) of the Netherlands has been using for nearly 20 years.
The Chinese solution is smaller in size, consumes less energy and is more efficient. Incredible."
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"If this is real it will be China surpassing on semi instead of catching up.
Based on this video, China's 3nm EUV lithography machine will start trial production in the third quarter and mass production in 2026.
The 3nm EUV lithography machine was developed by Huawei by integrating technologies from related domestic units. The equipment is located at Huawei's Songshan Lake base.
China's lithography machine technology route uses LDP high-voltage discharge tin vapor luminescence technology, which is a brand-new technology route and has been patented.
This is different from the LPP laser tinning solution that ASML (ASM) of the Netherlands has been using for nearly 20 years.
The Chinese solution is smaller in size, consumes less energy and is more efficient. Incredible."
Posted on 3/19/25 at 10:53 am to WHS
quote:
In English please?
This was the summary of the video in English
Based on this video, China's 3nm EUV lithography machine will start trial production in the third quarter and mass production in 2026.
The 3nm EUV lithography machine was developed by Huawei by integrating technologies from related domestic units. The equipment is located at Huawei's Songshan Lake base.
China's lithography machine technology route uses LDP high-voltage discharge tin vapor luminescence technology, which is a brand-new technology route and has been patented.
This is different from the LPP laser tinning solution that ASML (ASM) of the Netherlands has been using for nearly 20 years.
The Chinese solution is smaller in size, consumes less energy and is more efficient. Incredible."
Posted on 3/19/25 at 10:56 am to John Barron
Probably as real as their supersonic missiles
Posted on 3/19/25 at 10:56 am to John Barron
As far as I know lithography is a print method.
Posted on 3/19/25 at 10:57 am to John Barron
quote:
The Chinese solution is smaller in size, consumes less energy and is more efficient. Incredible."
This assumes it is on the up and up.
Seems to have been a decent amount of things hyped out of that part of the world which turned out to be bullshite.
Posted on 3/19/25 at 11:05 am to John Barron
Posters who don’t understand the issue here would do well to listen to the Acquired podcast episodes on TSMC.
Posted on 3/19/25 at 11:06 am to John Barron
China lies. China is a-hole
Posted on 3/19/25 at 11:09 am to John Barron
TSMC is already on 3nm and will be on 2nm soon. If this article is true, they won’t be on 3nm until 2026. TSMC might be at 1nm by that point.
Posted on 3/19/25 at 11:22 am to John Barron
The US should steal their design and use it as our own! Same as China does with our technology.
Posted on 3/19/25 at 11:23 am to teke184
Yeah china lies about all kind of stuff
Posted on 3/19/25 at 11:25 am to John Barron
Hey remember when China said they had quantum radar that could see through US stealth? But then they had to steal info just to be able to make a knock off Temu version of stealth planes? Pepperidge Farms remembers. But it is nice that I didn't have to looking for Chinese nonsense propaganda updates because John Barron is for sure going to start 25 posts a day about it in this board.
Posted on 3/19/25 at 11:25 am to LSUGent
quote:
TSMC is already on 3nm and will be on 2nm soon. If this article is true, they won’t be on 3nm until 2026. TSMC might be at 1nm by that point.
TSMC doesnt develop lithography. That is done specifically by ASML out of the netherlands.
Huawei will never catch up to them, even if they manage to "steal" a machine. If you are an engineer at ASML, not only do you know the lithography machine inside and out, you stay with it your entire career. ASML engineers are embedded at TSMC babysitting the machines until they retire.
Posted on 3/19/25 at 11:36 am to LSUGent
quote:
TSMC is already on 3nm and will be on 2nm soon. If this article is true, they won’t be on 3nm until 2026. TSMC might be at 1nm by that point.
You make a good point but TSMC won't have 1nm until 2030. The difference between 3nm and 1nm is also going to be incremental compared to the difference of going from 7nm to 3nm chips. With those incremental differences in performance and if this new China 3nm EUV lithography is actually producing higher performance 3nm chips, TSMC might have to change plans in investing 30 billion on a new Fab that won't make business sense anymore if Huawei comes in as a market disruptor with these new chips at a lower cost. Grok did a nice breakdown
"The advantage of a 1nm chip over a 3nm chip would primarily come down to improvements in performance, power efficiency, and transistor density, but the extent of those advantages depends on several factors, including how the industry defines "nm" at that scale and the practical limits of physics and manufacturing.
At the 3nm node—already in production by companies like TSMC as of 2025—you’re looking at incredibly small transistors, with gate lengths and feature sizes that push the boundaries of current lithography tech (like EUV, extreme ultraviolet lithography). A 1nm chip would theoretically shrink those features even further, potentially allowing for:
Higher Transistor Density: More transistors packed into the same area means more computational power or smaller, more efficient chips. Going from 3nm to 1nm could, in theory, increase density by a factor of 5-10x, assuming linear scaling (which it isn’t quite, due to design and thermal constraints).
Better Power Efficiency: Smaller transistors typically require less voltage to switch, reducing power consumption. This is huge for mobile devices and data centers where energy costs dominate. A 1nm chip might cut power use by 20-40% compared to 3nm, based on historical node-to-node trends.
Performance Gains: Faster switching speeds and reduced leakage current could boost clock speeds or parallel processing capability. However, gains here might be less dramatic than in the past—maybe 15-30% over 3nm—since we’re hitting diminishing returns as quantum effects (like tunneling) start to mess with reliability.
That said, there’s a catch: the "nm" label isn’t a literal measurement anymore—it’s more of a marketing term. At 3nm, the actual gate length is already larger than 3 nanometers, and at 1nm, it’s unlikely we’re talking about a true 1nm feature size. Instead, it’s about equivalent performance to what a 1nm node might historically imply. Plus, getting to 1nm would require breakthroughs—like maybe atomic-layer deposition or new materials (e.g., 2D materials like graphene)—because silicon’s limits are looming large.
The real-world advantage might not be as massive as the jump from, say, 7nm to 3nm. Thermal management, quantum interference, and insane manufacturing costs (think $20 billion fabs) could cap the benefits. So, yes, a 1nm chip would likely outperform a 3nm chip in efficiency and power, but the gap might not be revolutionary—more like an incremental win, unless some radical tech (like room-temp superconductors) comes along."
Posted on 3/19/25 at 11:40 am to John Barron
It’s not like China isn’t a total house of cards in just about all things
Posted on 3/19/25 at 11:41 am to Roaad
quote:
Probably as real as their supersonic missiles
Yeah, sounds like wishcasting propaganda.
Posted on 3/19/25 at 11:46 am to narddogg81
quote:
Hey remember when China said they had quantum radar that could see through US stealth?
Don't forget their nuclear battery that they bring up every two or three years.
Posted on 3/19/25 at 12:00 pm to BayouBlitz
Grok 3 does a great breakdown
There’s been buzz around Huawei testing a new extreme ultraviolet (EUV) lithography machine aimed at producing 3nm chips, and it’s worth digging into what this could mean. Reports suggest Huawei is trialing this tech at its Dongguan facility in China, with a domestically developed system that uses laser-induced discharge plasma (LDP) instead of the laser-produced plasma (LPP) method employed by ASML, the Dutch company that currently dominates the EUV market. The timeline floating around points to trial production kicking off in Q3 2025, with mass production possibly starting in 2026.
If this pans out, it’s a big deal for Huawei and China’s semiconductor ambitions. EUV lithography is critical for making chips below 7nm—think 5nm, 3nm, and beyond—because it uses a 13.5nm wavelength light to etch insanely tiny patterns onto silicon wafers. Right now, Huawei’s stuck at 7nm with its Kirin chips (like the Kirin 9000s in the Mate 60 Pro), relying on older deep ultraviolet (DUV) lithography with workarounds like multiple patterning. That gets the job done but jacks up costs and lowers yields compared to EUV. A working 3nm-capable EUV machine could leapfrog Huawei closer to the cutting edge, where TSMC’s already churning out 3nm chips for the likes of Apple.
The LDP approach is intriguing—it’s said to vaporize tin between electrodes using high-voltage discharge to create plasma, which then emits that 13.5nm light. Supposedly, it’s simpler and cheaper than ASML’s LPP, which blasts tin droplets with high-energy lasers in a more complex setup. If Huawei’s version delivers, it could sidestep U.S. sanctions that have blocked access to ASML’s gear since 2019, giving China a shot at self-sufficiency in high-end chipmaking.
But let’s not get ahead of ourselves. Building an EUV machine isn’t just about the light source—it’s a beast of a system, the size of a bus, with ultra-precise mirrors, vacuum chambers, and a whole ecosystem of masks and resists. Even if Huawei nails the LDP tech, scaling it to mass production by 2026 is ambitious. ASML took decades to perfect its EUV systems, and China’s still playing catch-up on the supporting infrastructure. Plus, yields and costs will matter—SMIC’s 7nm chips are reportedly 40-50% pricier than TSMC’s, and a 3nm process could amplify that gap if the tech’s not mature.
So, is Huawei really testing this? Posts on X and some tech outlets say yes, pointing to Dongguan and that 2025-2026 timeline. No official word from Huawei confirms it, though, and the details are thin. Could be legit—Huawei’s been pouring cash into chip R&D, and China’s got a €37 billion push behind domestic EUV efforts. But it could also be overhyped chatter. Either way, if they pull it off, it’s a middle finger to the U.S. export controls and a step toward shaking up the global chip race.
There’s been buzz around Huawei testing a new extreme ultraviolet (EUV) lithography machine aimed at producing 3nm chips, and it’s worth digging into what this could mean. Reports suggest Huawei is trialing this tech at its Dongguan facility in China, with a domestically developed system that uses laser-induced discharge plasma (LDP) instead of the laser-produced plasma (LPP) method employed by ASML, the Dutch company that currently dominates the EUV market. The timeline floating around points to trial production kicking off in Q3 2025, with mass production possibly starting in 2026.
If this pans out, it’s a big deal for Huawei and China’s semiconductor ambitions. EUV lithography is critical for making chips below 7nm—think 5nm, 3nm, and beyond—because it uses a 13.5nm wavelength light to etch insanely tiny patterns onto silicon wafers. Right now, Huawei’s stuck at 7nm with its Kirin chips (like the Kirin 9000s in the Mate 60 Pro), relying on older deep ultraviolet (DUV) lithography with workarounds like multiple patterning. That gets the job done but jacks up costs and lowers yields compared to EUV. A working 3nm-capable EUV machine could leapfrog Huawei closer to the cutting edge, where TSMC’s already churning out 3nm chips for the likes of Apple.
The LDP approach is intriguing—it’s said to vaporize tin between electrodes using high-voltage discharge to create plasma, which then emits that 13.5nm light. Supposedly, it’s simpler and cheaper than ASML’s LPP, which blasts tin droplets with high-energy lasers in a more complex setup. If Huawei’s version delivers, it could sidestep U.S. sanctions that have blocked access to ASML’s gear since 2019, giving China a shot at self-sufficiency in high-end chipmaking.
But let’s not get ahead of ourselves. Building an EUV machine isn’t just about the light source—it’s a beast of a system, the size of a bus, with ultra-precise mirrors, vacuum chambers, and a whole ecosystem of masks and resists. Even if Huawei nails the LDP tech, scaling it to mass production by 2026 is ambitious. ASML took decades to perfect its EUV systems, and China’s still playing catch-up on the supporting infrastructure. Plus, yields and costs will matter—SMIC’s 7nm chips are reportedly 40-50% pricier than TSMC’s, and a 3nm process could amplify that gap if the tech’s not mature.
So, is Huawei really testing this? Posts on X and some tech outlets say yes, pointing to Dongguan and that 2025-2026 timeline. No official word from Huawei confirms it, though, and the details are thin. Could be legit—Huawei’s been pouring cash into chip R&D, and China’s got a €37 billion push behind domestic EUV efforts. But it could also be overhyped chatter. Either way, if they pull it off, it’s a middle finger to the U.S. export controls and a step toward shaking up the global chip race.
Posted on 3/19/25 at 12:04 pm to The Baker
quote:
Huawei will never catch up to them, even if they manage to "steal" a machine
They actually are using a different method than ASML and claiming it's more efficient.
"Reports suggest Huawei is trialing this tech at its Dongguan facility in China, with a domestically developed system that uses laser-induced discharge plasma (LDP) instead of the laser-produced plasma (LPP) method employed by ASML"
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