re: Besides Jesus or Mohammed, who are the most influential figures in history?

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I figured you'd jump on my analytical post above, SM. Ha, you slacking?


I didn’t see it. I ain’t reading all the pages of this thread. maybe I am slacking.

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My first post in this Thread focused on the Ideas of said 'Influencers', as opposed to their personal belief or action, SM. Of course, as someone mentioned the other day, there may be 'Shadow Banning", or I would expect posters to ignore my 'crazier' offerings. I don't know whether the Admins employ that practice or not, but I would lose respect for the integrity of this Forum, if so.

" I am the first to argue our rights are God-given in the face of the leftist onslaught." (quote Squirrel).


Of course, with God-given Rights comes God-given Responsibilities, assuming one embraces Mercy over Just Recompence/Judgment re the qualifying high bar that Jesus set for entrance into 'Heaven'.

Good work. Be well.

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Then why don’t you and Memphisguy and others just ignore his posts and stop commenting on them? I find his posts interesting for the most part.

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Roger and the Memphisguy don’t add any value with any of their posts. They may not have the mental capacity or knowledge to even attempt to refute my arguments backed by evidence. For whatever reason, their arguments are that I’m a meanie poop head. I agree that they should ignore my posts.

Karl Marx: the Democrat Party

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Besides Jesus or Mohammed, who are the most influential figures in history?

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Jan 6 Committee

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Share your amazement. What about King David?

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I’ll throw in my two cents.

I’m going to go with the amazing story of David raping Bathsheba and then sending her husband Uriah to the front lines to be killed in battle so he could play it off that Bathsheba was pregnant by him since he could take her as wife since he had her husband killed. Yahweh actually said all of what David did was good except how he fricked over Uriah the Hittite.

I also like the influential story of how David fled Judah during the reign of Saul to fight on the side of the Philistines, murdering Israelites and Jews for fun, raping young girls, and starting a racketeering business.

The fact is that the only non biblical evidence of David might or may have been found on the Tel Dan Stele. But the archaeologists aren’t sure. But he might have existed.

Influential? Nah.

I was influenced by this figure as a youth:

Adam, He was the first Human, Gave us the Original Sin when he listened to his old lady
Noah, Saved us (and all animals) from extinction.

Everyone else is just history

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There is no corroborating evidence of Moses’ existence. The Egyptians kept great records which we have.

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Yeah, about that…
“The complete silence of official Egyptian records regarding Moses and his Great Exodus was eventually broken by Egyptian historians, who appeared to possess numerous details about Moses and the events of the Exodus. It seems that contemporary pharaonic authorities deliberately suppressed any mention of Moses and his followers in their official records.“

Of course, no one can prove that this is the case, but, it is at least plausible- given the nature of the relationship between the Israelites and the Egyptians according to the Biblical accounts.

“Despite this suppression, popular traditions retained the story of Moses, whom Egyptians regarded as a divine figure, for more than ten centuries before it was finally recorded by Egyptian priests. Under the Macedonian Ptolemaic Dynasty, which ruled Egypt after the death of Alexander the Great in 323 BC, Egyptian historians made sure to include the story of Moses and his Great Exodus in their historical accounts.
Manetho, the 3rd century BC Egyptian priest and historian who recorded the history of Egypt in Greek to be placed in the Library of Alexandria, included the story of Moses in his Aegyptiaca. According to Manetho, Moses was an Egyptian and not a Hebrew, who lived at the time of Amenhotep III and his son Akhenaten (1405 to 1367 BC). Manetho also indicated that the Israelites’ Exodus took place in the reign of a succeeding king whose name was Ramses.”

I know that this is not a contemporary account. But, it is an account nonetheless. Again, it is at least plausible that, with time, the the forbidden topic of the Exodus/Moses was allowed to be written of.

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The entire story in the Bible is scientifically inconsistent with reality

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Scientifically? Maybe I’m misunderstanding you, but I thought we were talking about history?

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Moses’ name means “son of” in Egyptian. Son of whom?

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I don’t see a problem here.
Exodus 2:10 (NASB95): The child grew, and she brought him to Pharaoh’s daughter and he became her son. And she named him Moses, and said, “Because I drew him out of the water.”

It seems to me like “Son of?” Is a fitting name for a Hebrew child found by an Egyptian woman who didn’t know the father.

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The story of Moses birth was a direct plagiarism of King Sargon of Akkad.

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That’s not true.

“The parallels with the account in Exodus includes the keeping secret of the birth, the hiding of the baby in a reed basket covered with tar, the placement of the basket in a river and the discovery and adoption of the baby by an important person. This leaves us three possibilities:

1. The parallels are a coincidence.

2. The Moses story was borrowed from the Sargon story. or

3. The Sargon story was borrowed from the Moses story.

Let us ignore option #1 briefly. If either #2 or #3 is correct, then the date at which the story was first recorded is crucial. The story of Moses goes back to roughly 1400 BC. Some liberal scholars want us to believe that Moses was not even a real person and that the entire story of his birth was created about 600 BC or so, but this view is incorrect for many reasons. The Law of Moses had been in place, governing Jewish belief, certainly by the time of David, but more likely from the time of the conquest. There is plenty of evidence for the conquest, including the Tel el Amarna letters, describing an invasion of the “Habirus” as well as the Shishak inscription, describing the Jews in Canaan in the 13th century, as well as the destructions of Hazor and Jericho at about 1400 BC. Besides, there is the evidence for the inspiration of the scriptures and the evidence for historical accuracy of the Bible in general. Can I say it is “proved” that the story of Moses, even if invented, goes back to 1400 BC? No I cannot, but I can say that this is the most reasonable conclusion, and 600 BC is way too late in any case.

What about the date of the legend/myth of Sargon? This is much more problematic. The only versions of this story come from the period of the Neo-Assyrian dynasty in the seventh or more likely the eighth century BC. This is where the grammatic form of the story comes from. This is the time, not of the semi-mythical Sargon I of Akkadia, but the very real and historical Sargon II of the Assyrians, a character in the Bible. There are parallels between the recorded myth of Sargon I to the actual life of Sargon II. The most likely explanation is that Sargon II, or a supporter of his, composed this myth about his ancient predecessor from fourteen centuries before his time, in order to build the status of the living Sargon II. Most likely, this myth was written in the 700’s BC. If this is the case, then the borrowing, if any, is from the Old Testament into the Sargon story. Let us be honest here, there is reasonable room for doubt, both for the date of composition of the Old Testament story of Moses and for the date of the Sargon myth. The most reasonable borrowing story is from Moses to Sargon, but to say that this is a slam dunk may be an overstatement.

But this gets us to the most likely answer of the three. The two stories, though on the surface appearing at least somewhat similar, are not related and the similarities are a coincidence. Like I already said, if we look at the entire story of Sargon 1 from the Assyrians of the eighth century, and the story of Moses, the overlap is only slight. If we were to list 50 things we know about Moses and 50 things we can glean from the story of Sargon, only the four things listed above are in common and the rest is so different, it seems unlikely that one borrowed from the other.“

I could keep going, but I think this is sufficient to show that there are logical, rational and plausible explanations, that are biblically sound, and that offer a reasonable basis to believe that the Bible is the inspired Word of God.

As usual, I will reiterate that the existence of these contradictory truth claims, which cannot be proven beyond doubt, necessitates the action of a personal choice.

Romans 3:3–4 (NASB95): What then? If some did not believe, their unbelief will not nullify the faithfulness of God, will it?
4 May it never be! Rather, let God be found true, though every man be found a liar…

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numerous details about Moses and the events of the Exodus

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What are they? Where is the archaeological evidence? Inscriptions? Writings? Scrolls? Census data? Food consumption? Evidence of a population of Jews larger than the population of native Egyptians in Egypt?

The Jews stayed in Egypt for 400 years? Then when they got to Canaan, the immediately adopted the Canaanite language and writing system and architecture and pottery? And the devil is tricking us by making ancient Israel and Judah’s dead appear to be Canaanites genetically?

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It seems that contemporary pharaonic authorities deliberately suppressed any mention of Moses and his followers in their official records.“

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It seems that this is pure speculation with no evidence. They make no mention of a the Israelite slaves that outnumber the Egyptians! Therefore they are deliberately suppressing the truth!

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Of course, no one can prove that this is the case, but, it is at least plausible-

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A massive slave population of Israelites in Egypt and exodus is plausible if we didn’t know anything about history. The fact that there is no corroborating evidence to those biblical claims gives us the reason to dismiss such claims. Claims without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

The other crap in that article was about “other” Moses. I’d never heard of that but regardless they aren’t talking about biblical Moses.

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It seems to me like “Son of?” Is a fitting name for a Hebrew child found by an Egyptian woman who didn’t know the father.

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Good argument. I don’t know enough to refute that but it seems reasonable. You got me.

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The parallels with the account in Exodus includes the keeping secret of the birth, the hiding of the baby in a reed basket covered with tar, the placement of the basket in a river and the discovery and adoption of the baby by an important person. This leaves us three possibilities

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The identical story in the legend of Sargon is over 1000 years, maybe 2000 years older than the story of Moses in the Bible.