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re: As an airline pilot, my opinion on the airline crash.
Posted on 1/30/25 at 12:39 pm to LSUGrrrl
Posted on 1/30/25 at 12:39 pm to LSUGrrrl
quote:But why? I don't get angry in these circumstances.
People should be angry when a preventable mass casualty event occurs.
Just sad and wishing I could fix it.
0
Posted on 1/30/25 at 12:39 pm to bhtigerfan
quote:
From what I have seen, it appears that ATC asked the helicopter if they had the CRJ on the approach to runway 33 in sight, and the helicopter confirmed that they did, and ATC told them to “pass behind the traffic.”
I believe the helicopter had a different aircraft in sight and obviously never saw the CRJ and flew right into it. It was just a horrible mistake and accident.
I brought up pretty much the same thing in another thread (the wife works in aviation, she and her crew had been following the event since it happened, mentioned that their speculation was what you mentioned), was told I was jumping to conclusions.
Posted on 1/30/25 at 12:40 pm to bhtigerfan
No one in this thread has a clue about ATC SOP in the National Capitol Region, DCA local control area, etc, etc. You can say it's all on ATC but since you don't what they are or are not allowed to do you really have no idea.
This may be by the book the way they have been doing it for the last decade. Every other time they asked the helo if he had the traffic in sight, maybe he did have the correct traffic in sight. Maybe unfortunately last night for the first time in the last 100,000-1,000,000th time the guy said he had the traffic in sight and would maintain visual separation but he was looking at the wrong plane.
Let the investigation play out before you make sweeping pronouncements of guilt
This may be by the book the way they have been doing it for the last decade. Every other time they asked the helo if he had the traffic in sight, maybe he did have the correct traffic in sight. Maybe unfortunately last night for the first time in the last 100,000-1,000,000th time the guy said he had the traffic in sight and would maintain visual separation but he was looking at the wrong plane.
Let the investigation play out before you make sweeping pronouncements of guilt
Posted on 1/30/25 at 12:43 pm to Upperaltiger06
I saw a video that said this was a required training flight and the helo pilots were wearing night vision.
Also that the angle both aircrafts were at it would been very difficult them to see one another.
This was an approved open flight path for the military that they used often.
The helo was supposed to be a 200ft but why would they be allowed to fly under a commercial airliner that close together.
Also that the angle both aircrafts were at it would been very difficult them to see one another.
This was an approved open flight path for the military that they used often.
The helo was supposed to be a 200ft but why would they be allowed to fly under a commercial airliner that close together.
Posted on 1/30/25 at 12:44 pm to bhtigerfan
quote:
it appears that ATC asked the helicopter if they had the CRJ on the approach to runway 33 in sight, and the helicopter confirmed that they did, and ATC told them to “pass behind the traffic.”
This is my problem. Who gives a shite what the helicopter pilot saw, if this is the case. The ATC should have told him where to divert to. Not, "hey, you guys see a plane near the airport? Try avoiding that".
Posted on 1/30/25 at 12:46 pm to flyingtexastiger
quote:I hear you bro, but I’ve flown into DCA numerous times also, and if an aircraft on short final collides with another aircraft, it’s definitely not their fault. The aircraft on final has the right of way over everyone else.
Let the investigation play out before you make sweeping pronouncements of guilt
Therefore it’s on ATC and the helo pilots.
Posted on 1/30/25 at 12:46 pm to flyingtexastiger
quote:
Maybe unfortunately last night for the first time in the last 100,000-1,000,000th time the guy said he had the traffic in sight and would maintain visual separation but he was looking at the wrong plane.
Let the investigation play out before you make sweeping pronouncements of guilt
It's a discussion board, we are discussing. What would you rather talk about instead? Your favorite color?
Posted on 1/30/25 at 12:47 pm to Upperaltiger06
quote:
Atc has been worsening rapidly over the past few years. The number of near misses and incidents have been unprecedented. I’ve been saying for a year and a half we would see a commercial tragedy. There is a lot of incompetence in the ATC. Unless something radical changes we will see another.
I dont have the numbers but we have seen way to many close calls happen over the past few years. It doesnt help that the airlines have pushed out many outstanding veteran pilots due to age requirements, same with ATC age reqs.
Posted on 1/30/25 at 12:49 pm to BugAC
quote:Yep. A simple “PAT25 turn left heading 090, maintain at or below 200 for traffic.”
This is my problem. Who gives a shite what the helicopter pilot saw, if this is the case. The ATC should have told him where to divert to. Not, "hey, you guys see a plane near the airport? Try avoiding that".
Problem solved.
This post was edited on 1/30/25 at 12:51 pm
Posted on 1/30/25 at 1:00 pm to Old Money
quote:
I dont have the numbers but we have seen way to many close calls happen over the past few years. It doesnt help that the airlines have pushed out many outstanding veteran pilots due to age requirements, same with ATC age reqs.
LINK
quote:
You might have heard news of "near-miss accidents" or "close calls" in the U.S. – which are incursions where a collision was avoided.
Early last year, a series of high-profile near-collisions at airports left many experts and travelers alike wondering what's going on with the nation's air transportation system. A recent New York Times investigation found that according to FAA data, near-miss accidents increased nearly 25% in the last decade, with about 300 such accidents in the most recent 12-month period for which reports are available.
This is a January 2024 article, BTW.
quote:
"We're trying to take a bigger look and do some deeper analysis to see what's going on," Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg told USA TODAY back in March. "It's enough that I'm concerned."
Some of the potentially catastrophic incidents last year included a FedEx plane that was cleared to land on the same runway where a Southwest 737 was preparing to take off at Austin Bergstrom International Airport in Texas. That, just weeks after an American Airlines jet inadvertently taxied across a runway while a Delta plane was beginning its takeoff roll at JFK Airport in New York. Also, a private jet took off without clearance at Boston Logan International Airport and crossed the path of a JetBlue flight that was preparing to land.
Posted on 1/30/25 at 1:04 pm to bhtigerfan
Two planes in the same area. ATC should have vectored that copter completely out of the area.
Posted on 1/30/25 at 1:12 pm to goatmilker
On occasion I fly a photography drone with a group of other photographers to take the same or similar picture we have never had an in the air collision. At first we use to designate altitudes to avoid crashes then we dropped that and just let everyone do whatever. Never had a crash in air The difference is a jet landing at 140 mph on a straight path and a slowly moving chopper that for some reason wants to cross a designated landing path at the altitude of the jet creates a much more likely scenario for a crash than a dozen drones flying independently in the same space. Why doesn’t the government know this ????
Posted on 1/30/25 at 1:25 pm to BugAC
quote:This is pertinent analysis - it boggles the mind to wonder why one or both of these flights weren’t at least dramatically diverted well before they closed.
This is my problem. Who gives a shite what the helicopter pilot saw, if this is the case. The ATC should have told him where to divert to. Not, "hey, you guys see a plane near the airport? Try avoiding that".
On another tack, it will not surprise me if there are DEI participants in these decision chains…
Posted on 1/30/25 at 1:27 pm to Knight of Old
Sad, but here's the relevant transmissions and flight paths:
Posted on 1/30/25 at 1:37 pm to cajunangelle
How much vetting is done on these FTC's as well as pilots/flight engineers and the like?
Any DEI incompetents in the flight controllers?
Any DEI incompetents in the flight controllers?
Posted on 1/30/25 at 1:44 pm to Upperaltiger06
quote:
Atc has been worsening rapidly over the past few years.
That's what happens when you prioritize race, gender, etc over competency.
Prior to ~2013-2014 the FAA gave hiring preference to controller applicants who earned a degree from one of its Collegiate Training Initiative (CTI) schools and scored high enough on an eight-hour screening test called the Air Traffic Selection and Training exam (AT-SAT). The Obama administration, however, determined that the process excluded too many from minority groups. In May 2013, the FAA's civil rights administrator issued a “barrier analyses” (what barriers may exist which could keep minorities from being considered) of the agency's employment procedures. The result of this was to recommend “revising how the AT-SAT is used in establishing best-qualified lists.”
By the start of 2015 the FAA was using a biographical questionnaire (BQ) to initially vet potential hires. The questions were things like “how many sports did you play in high school?”, “what has been the major cause of your failures?”, etc. The goal seemed to be to elicit stories of personal disadvantage or family hardship, which is also something many colleges and universities have instituted as a soft criteria when considering applications in order to weight entrance towards those who have experienced more "hardships" (of which, being a racial minority is considered one).
Once this went into effect, applicants already in the pipeline were told they would have to start the process over again, but this time complete and pass (although no one knows the criteria for "passing") the BQ. Along with this, the FAA opened applications up to anyone off the street (instead of focusing heavily on CTI schools).
In other words, around a decade ago the FAA created a program to promote "diversity" among its workforce as all air traffic control applicants had to be considered within this new context of "hardship" weighting.
Posted on 1/30/25 at 1:45 pm to bhtigerfan
Audio recorded tapes and radar display digital captures will tell the tale IRT controller and aircrew instructions & acknowledgements, and position data (heading & altitude). Will be interesting to learn more about the controller - experience, how long they had been on position, etc and the aircrew - experience, flying on/off NVDs, etc. Sad all around when you have an aviation mishap.
Posted on 1/30/25 at 2:02 pm to sc2anni
quote:DEI is a thing in the pilot ranks as far as hiring goes. Female and minority pilots get hired at higher rates than white male pilots. At least until the pilot shortage of the last few years. There is nothing these airlines like more than having a female or minority pilot walking around the airport or into the cockpit to virtue signal how progressive they are.
How much vetting is done on these FTC's as well as pilots/flight engineers and the like?
If you sent in 100 resumes of pilots with similar experience and flight times to the major airlines for a hiring class of 40, and 15 out of the 100 resumes were either female or minorities, I can guarantee you that those 15 would get an interview and likely hired before any of the others. I’ve seen it way too many times. Females especially, getting interviews with major airlines over white males with much more experience and flight times. Years ago when I flew 727’s for a cargo airline, we had two female first officers get interviews and get hired by United when white male captains with twice as much experience couldn’t even get an interview.
But fortunately, there is no way to “fake it until you make it” into the cockpit of a major airline and most regional airlines. If they cannot cut it in the simulator, they may get some extra training that others might not get, but they must pass an FAA approved check ride in the simulator and operating experience with a check airman on actual flights with passengers. If they are truly incompetent, they will not pass training.
This post was edited on 1/30/25 at 2:12 pm
Posted on 1/30/25 at 2:03 pm to bhtigerfan
Posted on 1/30/25 at 2:22 pm to bhtigerfan
Is it the same with the ATC's? That is pretty reckless to have many soul's lives in the hands of someone with no or limited experience.
Thanks for your reply.
Edit: I see on another thread that the second pilot in the helo was a female with 500 hours experience. That sounds kinda hinky to me. Not a hell of a lot of time to me.
Thanks for your reply.
Edit: I see on another thread that the second pilot in the helo was a female with 500 hours experience. That sounds kinda hinky to me. Not a hell of a lot of time to me.
This post was edited on 1/30/25 at 2:29 pm
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