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Started By
Message
re: Are public school uniforms unconstitutional?
Posted on 2/8/14 at 9:59 am to SpidermanTUba
Posted on 2/8/14 at 9:59 am to SpidermanTUba
quote:
You can't really think its constitutional for teachers to force children not to speak and unconstitutional for them to force children to wear uniforms. That wouldn't be a consistent position.
The ultimate inconsistency is the public school system and mandatory education.
My position is very consistent, because I don't support mandatory education or public schools. In my imaginary world, people can do something as simple as dress themselves or their children without interference from the state. Or maybe even :GASP: Pay for an education of their own choosing.
quote:
They go to school for an education, not to "express their individuality".
We go to school because it is mandatory. We go for the same reason that we pull over when a cop turns on his lights. We fear consequences.
quote:
I believe the opposite is true. By removing the fashion competition that occurs at schools without uniforms, students are better able to concentrate at the task at hand. It also generally saves the parents money.
I think a legitimate argument can be made for this. Maybe you should start your own school system and require students to wear the same uniform. Good luck competing against free public schools with an infinite supplies of other people's money!
1
Posted on 2/8/14 at 11:02 am to SpidermanTUba
quote:
We're all forced to wear something against our will. Try walking outside without any clothes on, see how far you get.
Standard Moral decency. It infringes upon others' rights that may not not want to see you naked.
quote:
Based on your absurd logic, it should be unconstitutional for a school to discipline a child for repeatedly speaking out of turn in class.
Strawman. Common ethics is to not interrupt the instructor. It would be unconstitutional, however, to punish a child for giving his/her opinion if you disagreed with it.
Posted on 2/8/14 at 11:07 am to SpidermanTUba
quote:
I believe the opposite is true. By removing the fashion competition that occurs at schools without uniforms, students are better able to concentrate at the task at hand
I know when I went to school (I graduated HS 5 years ago) they considered getting uniforms. Every kid hated the idea. Kids from nearby schools hated having uniforms. The parents hated how much the uniforms cost..most of the clothes their kids normally wore were cheaper than the uniforms, and could be worn at many places besides schools.
It doesn't save money if you buy the uniform because that is clothes that are specific for school. If allowed to wear normal casual clothes, those can be also worn for other times out of school. Now with uniforms, you have to have uniforms plus buy normal clothes.
Posted on 2/8/14 at 11:15 am to deltaland
quote:
It doesn't save money if you buy the uniform because that is clothes that are specific for school. If allowed to wear normal casual clothes, those can be also worn for other times out of school. Now with uniforms, you have to have uniforms plus buy normal clothes.
That isn't your decision to make. The priority is the attendance of a government approved educational facility. Your kids should just wear these uniforms outside of the classroom if it is going to be an issue for you. In fact, for the sake of fairness, children eligible for attendance at one of our regional educational facilities should be required to wear a school uniform at all times. Feel free to dress them how you wish when inside your home. I mean that is a basic freedom we should all have.
Posted on 2/8/14 at 12:45 pm to deltaland
I think we started here in Bossier about 10 years ago. I remember my puzzlement when I started seeing public school students around here wearing uniforms. I had seen lots of private school kids wearing uniforms, like Jesuit, St. Mark's of Dallas, etc. But these public school kids in Bossier City didn't look the same.
Then it hit me. A high percentage of public school kids are obese. I had never seen an obese kid in a uniform because rich kids aren't obese.
Then it hit me. A high percentage of public school kids are obese. I had never seen an obese kid in a uniform because rich kids aren't obese.
Posted on 2/8/14 at 2:15 pm to deltaland
quote:I can easily refute this argument about the exorbitant cost of uniforms. Plain uniform attire can be found at very reasonable prices. We have a school re-sell day for good condition used uniform items that our kids have outgrown. The rule is no more than $5 per item, whether it is a long or short sleeved polo shirt, khaki shorts or pants, spirit shirts, etc. Name brand Polos and khakis are plentiful in the Goodwill stores too. Top retailers often have excellent sales on their uniform stuff.
The parents hated how much the uniforms cost. It doesn't save money if you buy the uniform because that is clothes that are specific for school.
Then you buy a few non-uniform outfits for the weekends. We spend much more on clothing for our kid without uniforms vs our kid with uniforms.
Posted on 2/8/14 at 4:07 pm to deltaland
quote:
IMO Uniforms in schools keep kids from expressing their individuality.
GTFU. If you ever have a child attend a school that requires uniforms you will love it.
Posted on 2/8/14 at 4:08 pm to RhodeIslandRed
i think you just proved his point 
Posted on 2/8/14 at 4:17 pm to deltaland
quote:
IMO Uniforms in schools keep kids from expressing their individuality. They lower the morale of the kids, which hampers their education by making them hate school that much more.
This is a big arse reach, especially considering I can say the exact same argument but with teasing due to the fact that some kid doesn't have 20 different sets of the latest designer fad.
Furthermore, the logic behind it is stupid.
If someone who is so superficial that a major tenet of their individuality is the types of clothing they wear, and it is significant to the point that they are being depressed by not being able to wear it....
How much do you really think they are valuing their education anyway?
Posted on 2/8/14 at 4:22 pm to deltaland
quote:
It doesn't save money if you buy the uniform because that is clothes that are specific for school. If allowed to wear normal casual clothes, those can be also worn for other times out of school. Now with uniforms, you have to have uniforms plus buy normal clothes.
Except you can "get away" with possessing fewer uniforms, and the majority of the time during that age you spend in school, thus saving on wear and tear on the casual clothes.
At BEST it is cost neutral, and arguably it is cheaper.
Aside: I am not necessarily arguing FOR uniforms. I'm ambivalent on the subject.
Its just that your arguments against are stupid.
Posted on 2/8/14 at 4:30 pm to Maxx99
quote:
I can easily refute this argument about the exorbitant cost of uniforms. Plain uniform attire can be found at very reasonable prices. We have a school re-sell day for good condition used uniform items that our kids have outgrown. The rule is no more than $5 per item, whether it is a long or short sleeved polo shirt, khaki shorts or pants, spirit shirts, etc.
It must be cheaper there. Where I live only one supplier does school uniforms in each town, and they jack up the prices. By the time a kid buys 1 set of khaki shorts and 1 shirt, you've spent at least 80 bucks.
Posted on 2/8/14 at 4:52 pm to deltaland
I am trying to decide what part of the constitution it would offend and i don't know.
I know that it probably falls under a state power. from there you would have to look at the state law.
I know that it probably falls under a state power. from there you would have to look at the state law.
Posted on 2/8/14 at 5:36 pm to deltaland
Uniforms make the students' and parents' lives much easier, only problem is the value of a sound investment is not taught in most schools these days.
Not anymore unconstitutional than having any kind of dress code.
Not anymore unconstitutional than having any kind of dress code.
Posted on 2/8/14 at 9:16 pm to SpidermanTUba
I agree with tuba. We are subject of the government. We must do what they tell us. The know what is best for us and want the best for us. We should not and should not be allowed to question the government.
Posted on 2/8/14 at 9:20 pm to RhodeIslandRed
quote:
If you ever have a child attend a school that requires uniforms you will love it.
That is not being debated.
What is being debated is the requirement to wear them. Are you ok with the government requiring you to do something as long as you enjoy it?
I prefer freedom, but that is just me.
Posted on 2/9/14 at 5:32 pm to deltaland
quote:
This will happen in real life out of school. I think it is harmful to shelter kids from reality in school..coming into the real world full of ignorance is not a good thing
I went to a high school that didn't require students to wear uniforms and there was a girl from a poor family who had to wear thrift store type clothes and she was constantly ridiculed by the other kids. They made her life miserable. She was always sad and I don't think children should have to deal with that while at school.
Therefore, I'm 100% in favor of school uniforms
Posted on 2/9/14 at 5:39 pm to deltaland
I hated uniforms as a kid, but kids have zero rights. The onus is on the parents to oppose the uniform policies at the local level. I was miserable in them and they were ugly as sin.
Posted on 2/9/14 at 5:44 pm to MrCarton
quote:
My position is very consistent, because I don't support mandatory education or public schools
OK
Posted on 2/9/14 at 5:59 pm to ManBearTiger
quote:
Uniforms make the students' and parents' lives much easier
God forbid people have to dress themselves.
Help me, Uncle Sam I don't know what to wear
Posted on 2/9/14 at 6:04 pm to DawgfaninCa
quote:
They made her life miserable. She was always sad and I don't think children should have to deal with that while at school.
I hate that kids do this to others. I think that it's the responsibility of teachers to get a handle on this poor behavior.
I also believe that in many cases, the ridicule will motivate the person to want to work to get out of poverty. People seek acceptance of others, and if they don't get that through social standing then they'll try to get it through doing better than others in school, or better at sports, or something. They'll want to excel at something in order to gain popularity by their peers.
Many times it isn't a bad thing to have your feelings hurt.
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