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Started By
Message
re: Are public school uniforms unconstitutional?
Posted on 2/9/14 at 6:07 pm to Buddy Garrity
Posted on 2/9/14 at 6:07 pm to Buddy Garrity
quote:
Are public school uniforms unconstitutional?
No
0
Posted on 2/9/14 at 6:36 pm to deltaland
quote:
I also believe that in many cases, the ridicule will motivate the person to want to work to get out of poverty. People seek acceptance of others, and if they don't get that through social standing then they'll try to get it through doing better than others in school, or better at sports, or something. They'll want to excel at something in order to gain popularity by their peers.
Many times it isn't a bad thing to have your feelings hurt.
You made some valid points that I agree with but it was still horrible to see this girl treated that way. Because of the way she was treated, she would always sit by herself and never talk to anyone.
I always wanted to talk to her and tell her that I didn't like what the other kids were doing to her but I was too shy to do it.
This post was edited on 2/9/14 at 6:37 pm
Posted on 2/9/14 at 8:31 pm to deltaland
quote:
It must be cheaper there. Where I live only one supplier does school uniforms in each town
Delta, in the Jackson metro, JPS kids wear uniforms and of course the private schools do as well.
We send our daughter to private school, and what you say is true - Parker sells crap at a ridiculous price. The schools have sales every spring, and we pick up backups, but generally, we are buying a new uniform set every year at around $350-$400.
The JPS uniforms aren't regulated except for this color polos and khaki pants. Wal Mart carries them. Strange that Delta schools would allow a uniform company to have the exclusive a la private schools.
Neither my wife or I were in schools with uniforms, but my wife has taught at both - she really appreciates the uniforms, but says kids are comparing cars that mom picks them up in, houses that they live in, etc., instead of what shoes someone is wearing.
Posted on 2/9/14 at 8:56 pm to anc
quote:
I think it's better to allow kids to wear their own styles and show their own individuality.
when will it stop???
and then when your gay son (or whoever) gets made fun of for showing his "individuality" you will sue the school and file some lawsuit against the parents of the kid who made fun of him...everyone now-a-days is trying their best to not get sued by some sensitive radicals
on top of that if youre insinuating that school uniforms are a form of "oppression" you need to grow up
the fact that this thread was even started tells me you have too much time on your hands
quote:
Are public school uniforms unconstitutional?
no dumb question
Posted on 2/11/14 at 7:03 am to DeionDeion
quote:
when will it stop???
Amazing. My guess is that most on here are conservative, yet they support the state telling them what their kids have to wear to school.
Is it ok for the state to mandate things when you agree with the decision?
While I may think that uniforms make life simpler for everyone involved, I disagree with the state forcing our kids to wear certain clothes.
Under Mike Foster, LA passed the Yes Sir, No Sir law that required kids to use these expressions at school. It was a horrible law. Although, I teach my kids manners and respect, I think it is the wrong approach for the state to mandate.
Posted on 2/11/14 at 7:27 am to deltaland
quote:
Could it be deemed unconstitutional for a public school, which is a entity of the state, to force kids to wear certain clothes that they may not like wearing?
IMO Uniforms in schools keep kids from expressing their individuality. They lower the morale of the kids, which hampers their education by making them hate school that much more.
I think it's better to allow kids to wear their own styles and show their own individuality. Of course, a simple dress code would be fine to keep the dress within reason, but kids at public schools who can't choose what school to attend due to districts shouldn't be forced to dress the same.
Private schools of course are ok for uniforms, since it is a choice to go there and it is a private business.
I went to a public school that was very diverse. Our community has suffered tremendous job losses in the last 30 years and it hast taken a toll on the school system. Because of that and a nuber of issues, the clothing kids were wearing to school became too much to handle. It was embarrassing what these kids were wearing. It started to effect our enrollement, graduation rate and performance index. Our school and communtiy voted to have uniforms. After 2-3 years our graduation rate went up 10% points and we went from academic emergency to excellent and now our enrollement district wide has gone up 400+ kids. I cant say with 100% accuracy that it was becuase of the uniforms, but you would have to be naive to think it didnt help. In my community, i think it gave the kids structure and discipline. It may not work for every community, but has for my community thus far.
Posted on 2/11/14 at 7:45 am to deltaland
People can vote for a school Sup who supports school uniforms.
Posted on 2/11/14 at 8:38 am to deltaland
quote:
a simple dress code would be fine
A dress code!?!? Why do you hate the constitution? Why are you against freedom and liberty? How can a child get an education and learn to recognize others as individuals persons with a dress code?
Posted on 2/11/14 at 8:52 am to deltaland
School uniforms were mandated in my area when I was in middle school. Looking back, I think a lot of it had to do with cost of clothing. My brother in law went to private school in the NOLA area until they moved to Mandeville and he went to public. His parents spent a significant amount more on his clothes once he didn't have to wear uniforms.
It's another way of equalizing the playing field while at the same time limiting the rediculous things kids will wear to school without having to pinpoint specific styles that could be tied to a particular "culture". That's not meant to be racist or anything, it's just that once you create a rule against a certain clothing style, you run the risk of being considered biased against a particular group. Uniforms make that easier.
Also, people who say it stifles individuality and productivity, give me a break. Private schools are known to preform better than public schools most of the time and they pretty much all have uniforms. If a kid can't express themselves because they have to wear a uniform for 6 hours a day, that kid probably didn't have much to express.
It's another way of equalizing the playing field while at the same time limiting the rediculous things kids will wear to school without having to pinpoint specific styles that could be tied to a particular "culture". That's not meant to be racist or anything, it's just that once you create a rule against a certain clothing style, you run the risk of being considered biased against a particular group. Uniforms make that easier.
Also, people who say it stifles individuality and productivity, give me a break. Private schools are known to preform better than public schools most of the time and they pretty much all have uniforms. If a kid can't express themselves because they have to wear a uniform for 6 hours a day, that kid probably didn't have much to express.
Posted on 2/11/14 at 8:57 am to Buckeye Backer
quote:
Could it be deemed unconstitutional for a public school, which is a entity of the state, to force kids to wear certain clothes that they may not like wearing?
IMO Uniforms in schools keep kids from expressing their individuality. They lower the morale of the kids, which hampers their education by making them hate school that much more.
Public schools are under the purview of state control, not federal control. The only argument for federal constitutional ramifications regarding school uniforms would be an infringement of the right of symbolic speech. However, dress does not fall under the category of "core political speech" which protected to the utmost. Therefore, some regulation of symbolic, non-political speech is permitted. This coupled with the fact that students are only granted constitutional rights to a lesser degree while in school, would permit independent districts to make regulations regarding school dress including the use of uniforms.
Posted on 2/11/14 at 9:13 am to deltaland
I have gone back and forth on this issue. Freedom of expression seems to be a key argument for many. My son attended a public school for a year that required uniforms. They allowed for 3 different colored shirts, khaki pants or shorts. Don't remember anything about the shoes.
The kids are at school to learn, not to express their individuality to their classmates via clothes.
Anybody who has ever had kids knows they have a favorite pair of pants or shirt that seems to get worn at least twice a week and heaven forbid it's dirty the day they want to wear it to school. Can make mornings rather painful.
The kids are at school to learn, not to express their individuality to their classmates via clothes.
Anybody who has ever had kids knows they have a favorite pair of pants or shirt that seems to get worn at least twice a week and heaven forbid it's dirty the day they want to wear it to school. Can make mornings rather painful.
Posted on 2/11/14 at 9:17 am to dante
quote:
Freedom of expression
Doesn't exist
Posted on 2/11/14 at 9:19 am to Antonio Moss
quote:Excuse me..Speech
Doesn't exist
Posted on 2/11/14 at 9:21 am to dante
Symbolic Speech. And for the utmost protection, the speech must be political-related.
Posted on 2/11/14 at 9:27 am to Antonio Moss
quote:I have not read any of the thread, just responded to the OP. What point are you making? In favor or not in favor of uniforms? Personally I have gone back and forth on the idea of school uniforms. Ultimately I don't think it is a big deal.
Symbolic Speech. And for the utmost protection, the speech must be political-related.
Posted on 2/11/14 at 9:44 am to deltaland
quote:
Could it be deemed unconstitutional for a public school, which is a entity of the state, to force kids to wear certain clothes that they may not like wearing?
Sure, it COULD BE "deemed" unconstitutional by new Supreme Court justices who are unwilling to follow precedent.
But I recall that a group of parents in my public school district back in South Carolina who didn't like the elementary school uniforms lost on the matter.
Posted on 2/11/14 at 10:07 am to dante
quote:
What point are you making?
School dress is not a protected activity under the federal constitution.
Posted on 2/11/14 at 10:09 am to Antonio Moss
Thanks for clarifying.
Posted on 2/11/14 at 10:32 am to Antonio Moss
quote:
not federal control
Curiously, the feds didn't get that memo.
quote:
The push for school uniforms gained momentum in 1996 when President Clinton stated: "If it means that teenagers will stop killing each other over designer jackets, then our public schools should be able to require school uniforms." The president ordered the U.S. Department of Education to issue manuals on the efficacy of school uniforms. The manual (available on-line at the Department of Education Web site) states that school uniforms represent "one positive and creative way to reduce discipline problems and increase school safety."
Posted on 2/11/14 at 10:35 am to Maxx99
The Supreme Court has ruled consistently that students in a school setting do not have the same rights as citizens outside of the school setting.
IE, the cops cannot come into your house randomly looking for drugs. They must show cause, get a warrant.
However, cops can search your school locker randomly looking for drugs. They can also use drug sniffing dogs randomly on your car in the student parking lot. If the dog alerts they take you out of class and order you to unlock the door.
IE, the cops cannot come into your house randomly looking for drugs. They must show cause, get a warrant.
However, cops can search your school locker randomly looking for drugs. They can also use drug sniffing dogs randomly on your car in the student parking lot. If the dog alerts they take you out of class and order you to unlock the door.
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