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Message
re: Are people going to church still?
Posted on 7/28/25 at 2:11 pm to Richleau
Posted on 7/28/25 at 2:11 pm to Richleau
quote:
My only problem with church is I don’t connect with anyone at church. They are all so damn squeaky clean and it just irks me for some reason.
i'm a 40 year old deacon and I would never give anybody the impression that I'm squeaky clean. Now i'm not cheating on my wife, lying on my taxes, or engaging in drunken debauchery, watching porn, etc. but I have an extremely flawed past and current state.
maturity in Christ is not perfection, just shorter and shorter deviations from walking from him.
0
Posted on 7/28/25 at 6:33 pm to Richleau
quote:
I don’t connect with anyone at church. They are all so damn squeaky clean and it just irks me for some reason.
Nah. Don’t get me wrong- there absolutely are some squeaky clean (by human standards) people there. The reason that irks you is because they carry themselves as though they are better than you because of it. Does it usually go something like this?
He (Jesus) also told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and treated others with contempt: “Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed thus: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.’ But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’ I tell you, this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”
God hates a proud look. You wanna be the tax collector in this parable- not the squeaky clean by human standards Pharisee. Anyway, in my experience, churches are filled with people from all walks of life, who are at all stages of their respective relationships with God. I can almost guarantee you that there’s someone there who has been where you are, and several who are where you are. “I am just a beggar who has found Bread.” Something like that. Don’t let the Pharisees keep you from the Bread.
quote:
but like the worship with the hand in the air like you’re grasping Jesus’ cheek, it just all feels so forced
You don’t have to do that. But In my experience the only things that stop me from doing it are pride and shame. But that’s just me.
There will always be “good reasons” not to go. Nothing worth having comes easy.
Posted on 7/28/25 at 10:13 pm to Harald Ekernson
Ok, Harald, I’ll play along. 
Not.
That’s not what it says. Nice try, serpent.
18So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.
You can desire to save someone- and take pleasure in it. You can desire to protect your children- and not take pleasure in it. Both of these behaviors are consistent with good character.
22What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction?
That certainly doesn’t sound like God is taking pleasure in the destruction of the vessels prepared for wrath. I’ll be the first to admit- I don’t like the idea of anyone “going to hell.” I don’t think God does either. BUT, I also recognize the importance of justice. Couple that with the fact that we are in control of and responsible for our actions- and I can see how eternal punishment would befit eternal rebellion. I can’t understand why anyone would remain in rebellion (having finally felt the consequences) but there’s a lot I don’t understand. One thing I do understand is that no matter how many questions I find answers to, I’ll never relieve myself of the necessity of faith. It doesn’t stop me from asking questions, just a realization that there’s too much to know and too little time. We invariably exercise faith in every aspect of our lives. When will you realize that your worldview differs only in the placement of yours?
quote:
Excuse or not
Not.
quote:
God has predestined those he chooses to save and hardens the hearts of whomever he pleases.
That’s not what it says. Nice try, serpent.
18So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.
You can desire to save someone- and take pleasure in it. You can desire to protect your children- and not take pleasure in it. Both of these behaviors are consistent with good character.
22What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction?
That certainly doesn’t sound like God is taking pleasure in the destruction of the vessels prepared for wrath. I’ll be the first to admit- I don’t like the idea of anyone “going to hell.” I don’t think God does either. BUT, I also recognize the importance of justice. Couple that with the fact that we are in control of and responsible for our actions- and I can see how eternal punishment would befit eternal rebellion. I can’t understand why anyone would remain in rebellion (having finally felt the consequences) but there’s a lot I don’t understand. One thing I do understand is that no matter how many questions I find answers to, I’ll never relieve myself of the necessity of faith. It doesn’t stop me from asking questions, just a realization that there’s too much to know and too little time. We invariably exercise faith in every aspect of our lives. When will you realize that your worldview differs only in the placement of yours?
Posted on 7/28/25 at 10:22 pm to 5WFSHR
No
Posted on 7/28/25 at 10:31 pm to Prodigal Son
quote:quote:That’s not what it says.
God has predestined those he chooses to save and hardens the hearts of whomever he pleases.
For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.
quote:
18So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.
Exactly what I said.
quote:
I’ll be the first to admit- I don’t like the idea of anyone “going to hell.”
Good because there’s no scriptural basis for it. All the dead go to the same place, we/they sleep, and on judgement day the dead in Christ will rise and the unrighteous will be cast into fire and destroyed.
Posted on 7/28/25 at 10:35 pm to 5WFSHR
Went to church Sunday. Went to revival tonight. Will be going tomorrow too.
Posted on 7/28/25 at 11:04 pm to Harald Ekernson
quote:
quote: 18So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.
Exactly what I said.
No, you said:
quote:
God has predestined those he chooses to save and hardens the hearts of whomever he pleases.
There’s no way you don’t see it. No excuse.
quote:
Good because there’s no scriptural basis for it. All the dead go to the same place, we/they sleep, and on judgement day the dead in Christ will rise and the unrighteous will be cast into fire and destroyed.
You’ll get no argument from me- for once. I don’t think I even want the true weight of that knowledge, yet. I have heard good arguments for and against eternal suffering and total annihilation. Dealer’s choice- literally.
I see you still have no interest in discussing objective morality. I guess some things never change.
Posted on 7/28/25 at 11:11 pm to 5WFSHR
I had to look twice to make sure this wasn't a Eurocat thread.
Posted on 7/28/25 at 11:52 pm to Prodigal Son
quote:
There’s no way you don’t see it. No excuse
Not everyone is humble enough to accept the Biblical truth when they see it. I pray for people like you to put God’s word above your own thoughts.
Posted on 7/29/25 at 12:07 am to 5WFSHR
One way you could find out is going to church so you wouldn't have to ask stupid questions. I went to church yesterday and it was packed.
Posted on 7/29/25 at 12:21 am to Speckhunter2012
quote:
I go to church any time I am in nature fishing, hunting or hiking.
I used to go to a building constructed with millions of dollars and furnished with the finest money can buy.
I am cool for those that still do. I will not judge.
For me, yeah, I go to church very often and am grateful for it every day.
I also cutoff the middlemen.
Posted on 7/29/25 at 12:36 am to 5WFSHR
Define church
Posted on 7/29/25 at 12:45 am to Speckhunter2012
quote:I would encourage you to obey God and worship Him as He commands, not as you desire. He sets the parameters of His own worship, not us.
I go to church any time I am in nature fishing, hunting or hiking.
I used to go to a building constructed with millions of dollars and furnished with the finest money can buy.
I am cool for those that still do. I will not judge.
For me, yeah, I go to church very often and am grateful for it every day.
The New Testament was written for the Church, which was and is God’s people worshipping together as one body, not as individuals separated from each other, doing what seems right in their own eyes.
God has given us means of grace to bless us, found in word, prayer, and sacrament, provided to us through ordained officers. He has given us elders for our teaching and correction. He has given us other Christians to encourage us, to build us up, to serve us in our need, and for us to do the same to them.
Christianity is not a religion for individuals, but is a religion where individuals come together as the one Church of Jesus Christ. He saved us to belong to the Church universal, and when we see Christ face to face in our death, we will be worshipping Him forever in the community of the Church triumphant. Today, we are to join ourselves with the Church militant, belonging to Christ’s community on earth.
There are still many congregations that faithfully worship the Lord and serve His people. Join yourself with one and be blessed by it as you bless them.
Posted on 7/29/25 at 7:33 am to FooManChoo
quote:
I would encourage you to obey God and worship Him as He commands, not as you desire. He sets the parameters of His own worship, not us.
I had no idea you converted to Catholicism. Congrats!!!
Posted on 7/29/25 at 7:47 am to Zephyrius
quote:Not quite. I’m a biblical Christian, seeking to live faithfully according to the only infallible rule for faith and life: the holy Scriptures.
I had no idea you converted to Catholicism. Congrats!!!
Posted on 7/29/25 at 7:54 am to FooManChoo
How does your sect determine which writings form "the holy Scriptures"?
Posted on 7/29/25 at 8:08 am to 5WFSHR
I go most every Sunday (Assuming I’m not working.) to the 8:00 service @ HPC. We (Highland Campus.) have had more people attending this summer than ever before.
Posted on 7/29/25 at 8:14 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:I’m Presbyterian and we adhere to the Westminster Confession of Faith as a faithful summary of what the Scriptures teach. Here is its statement about the Scriptures from chapter 1:
How does your sect determine which writings form "the holy Scriptures"?
We may be moved and induced by the testimony of the Church to an high and reverent esteem of the holy Scripture; and the heavenliness of the matter, the efficacy of the doctrine, the majesty of the style, the consent of all the parts, the scope of the whole (which is to give all glory to God), the full discovery it makes of the only way of man’s salvation, the many other incomparable excellencies, and the entire perfection thereof, are arguments whereby it doth abundantly evidence itself to be the Word of God; yet, notwithstanding, our full persuasion and assurance of the infallible truth and divine authority thereof, is from the inward work of the Holy Spirit, bearing witness by and with the Word in our hearts.
Posted on 7/29/25 at 8:23 am to Harald Ekernson
quote:
Not everyone is humble enough to accept the Biblical truth when they see it. I pray for people like you to put God’s word above your own thoughts.
To whom?
Posted on 7/29/25 at 8:27 am to FooManChoo
quote:He had a speaker deliver a prayer before speaking at the WH last week and it's not uncommon for him to promote God, especially since Butler.
Not sure why they would. Trump hasn’t been speaking about the gospel.
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