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re: Any takers for a discussion about “Marxian economics”?
Posted on 11/4/26 at 6:50 pm to 4cubbies
Posted on 11/4/26 at 6:50 pm to 4cubbies
quote:
Just fyi, I scroll past posts by people who have repeatedly demonstrated they are only here to troll. I don’t even read them at all. I’m beyond sick of immature men thinking they are entitled to my attention. There’s no other way to say it than frick off.
Wah wah wah wah wah I’m an emotional woman who can’t deal with being proven wrong so I just ignore people that prove me wrong and continue to talk in circles because I am a woman that is a slave to her hormones and emotions, just like my hero Clancy.
Posted on 11/4/26 at 7:18 pm to stuntman
It did not, but I wonder if Richard Wolff mentions that in any of his work. I’ll have to find out.
In full disclosure, I am wholeheartedly unfamiliar with the Cantillon Effect.
In full disclosure, I am wholeheartedly unfamiliar with the Cantillon Effect.
This post was edited on 11/4/26 at 7:23 pm
Posted on 11/4/26 at 7:20 pm to 4cubbies
You are a sick one Cubbie, and Kiwi too
Posted on 11/4/26 at 7:25 pm to 4cubbies
I've listened to a whole lot of his debates and lectures. I've never heard him mention it, but I've never read any of his books, so I didn't know.
The Cantillon Effect is just what currency creation does to purchasing power. Those that get that newly printed currency first are the ones that benefit. They get to use it before prices adjust. Everyone else gets screwed w/ higher prices. If you ever hear people like me talk about how inflation is a "hidden tax", the Cantillon Effect is pretty much what we're referring to.
Nixon taking us completely off gold made it much, much easier to just print up currency.
If you ever get time, you should check out Richard Wolf's debate w/ David Friedman. I can't remember if the Cantillon Effect was mentioned in it or not, but it's worth the listen anyway.
The Cantillon Effect is just what currency creation does to purchasing power. Those that get that newly printed currency first are the ones that benefit. They get to use it before prices adjust. Everyone else gets screwed w/ higher prices. If you ever hear people like me talk about how inflation is a "hidden tax", the Cantillon Effect is pretty much what we're referring to.
Nixon taking us completely off gold made it much, much easier to just print up currency.
If you ever get time, you should check out Richard Wolf's debate w/ David Friedman. I can't remember if the Cantillon Effect was mentioned in it or not, but it's worth the listen anyway.
Posted on 11/4/26 at 7:30 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
It's just that kinesthetic intelligence is underrated through standardization efforts, or most visibly so.
This is such an interesting angle that doesn’t really get any attention. I appreciate you bringing this up. I definitely want to learn more about this. Thank you.
Posted on 11/4/26 at 7:37 pm to stuntman
I have so much more to learn about now! What is your take on Wolff? I just discovered him when he was mentioned in that article which was really more about education reform than economics.
Posted on 11/4/26 at 7:46 pm to 4cubbies
Well, the only real compliments I have for Wolff is that I believe he truly believes what he says and is not afraid to debate anyone about his views. That last one is an especially good trait.
I'm as anti-Marxist, anti-collectivist as it gets, but because of that, it's on me to understand their pov inside and out, so I'm not just fighting strawmen when I talk about those worldviews.
I'm as anti-Marxist, anti-collectivist as it gets, but because of that, it's on me to understand their pov inside and out, so I'm not just fighting strawmen when I talk about those worldviews.
Posted on 11/4/26 at 7:48 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:you are very clearly way smarter than me and I’m honestly sheepish to respond because I’m afraid I’m misunderstanding you again, but there’s a whole canon of literature on social character and it’s role in education (or vice versa) that I just discovered and am interested in exploring.
There's a better argument to be made on what education we should value if we are referencing those periods,
This post was edited on 11/4/26 at 7:49 pm
Posted on 11/4/26 at 7:54 pm to stuntman
quote:
I'm as anti-Marxist, anti-collectivist as it gets,
When I read the paragraph in the OP, I googled him and saw he’s a “Marxian economist” and then I googled what a Marxian economist is and (I could be totally misunderstanding it) I thought it’s just a s school of thought that’s critical of capitalism, but not necessarily pro-Marxism.
Again, I’m no expert.
Posted on 11/4/26 at 7:59 pm to 4cubbies
He's a Marxist. A very proud one.
If I had a chance to ask him any question, it would be "Why did New Harmony fail"?
I know most don't know about it, but this rich industrialist, Robert Owen, from over in Britain moved to Ohio (I think) to start a new socialist society. Had the smartest people around to help plan.
It fell apart in two years and he lost most of his fortune. He was doing far more to help people and fund schools as a capitalist than he ever did as a socialist.
I daydream about shite like this from time to time.
If I had a chance to ask him any question, it would be "Why did New Harmony fail"?
I know most don't know about it, but this rich industrialist, Robert Owen, from over in Britain moved to Ohio (I think) to start a new socialist society. Had the smartest people around to help plan.
It fell apart in two years and he lost most of his fortune. He was doing far more to help people and fund schools as a capitalist than he ever did as a socialist.
I daydream about shite like this from time to time.
Posted on 11/4/26 at 8:21 pm to stuntman
I was so frustrated with the lack of substantive, good-faith engagement yesterday that I was going to rage quit this whole stupid place. And then all the smart people came out of the woodwork today and now I’m too intimidated to post in my own thread. Different tactics, Same result
Posted on 11/4/26 at 8:45 pm to 4cubbies
Thanks for that compliment, cubbies.
I don't think I'm all that smart, tbh. I think it's mostly that for whatever reason, I just happen to be very interested in economics and philosophy, so I've spent way more time learning about those subjects than others do.
You are clearly on the same kind of path, and like I told you before, it's awesome to see.
Posted on 11/5/26 at 4:07 am to 4cubbies
quote:You may not know who Randi Weingarten is.
Is it really weird?
---
yes! If capitalism fosters innovation
Posted on 11/5/26 at 7:16 am to NC_Tigah
quote:I looked up Randi Weingarten, but I don’t think she can reasonably be credited with the lack of innovation in public education over generations.
You may not know who Randi Weingarten is.
If your broader point is that teachers unions have impeded educational innovation, I’m curious which specific innovations you believe they’ve prevented.
In terms of evaluating educational achievement, unions have traditionally opposed standardized testing so I don’t think they are to blame for our standardized testing fetish.
Posted on 11/5/26 at 8:46 am to 4cubbies
quote:I guess your view would entail a presumption that our public educational system has been broken over the span of generations. I'm not sure I'd buy that.
I don’t think she can reasonably be credited with the lack of innovation in public education over generations.
Nor would I propose that teachers' unions are, in and of themselves, problematic. In fact, insofar as teachers' unions encourage educational and compensatory furtherance, they could be a real positive.
It is not the unions per se, but rather Weingarten's ideology of politics preempting pupils which is the core problem. The result is an extreme leftist ideology currently infesting the unions, and by default, our schools. I'd suggest, while such an approach is now existential, it is not a multigenerational problem.
In terms of "impeded educational innovation" the politics-first premise speaks for itself. Marxist philosophy is critical theory dependent. Critical thinking and fact-based positivism is anathema to critical theorists. So it is downplayed or disregarded altogether. The result is an observable and well documented absence of rational thought, and capacity for logical reasoning in our student populations. The intersection of that trend with AI is dangerous.
Here is Kenneth Saltman, in his painfully hesitating way, addressing the supposed negatives of fact-focused learning as he pushed a book.
This post was edited on 11/5/26 at 8:50 am
Posted on 11/5/26 at 8:49 am to 4cubbies
quote:Why not?
I don't see it as primarily a tool for "the market," either.
quote:Yep.
kids weren't thinking critically. They were basically (and ironically) being indoctrinated.
quote:And teaching!
One of my biggest gripes about the education reformers is that their methods suck all the joy out of learning.
My wife was a teacher and eventually got so fed up she retired.
quote:Absolutely true.
But standardized test scores don't prove that kids can actually think critically
Posted on 11/5/26 at 9:30 am to 4cubbies
quote:A Socratean approach, where applicable.
What kind of curriculum would prepare a student to answer this question correctly?
------------
Theodore Roosevelt brokered a peace between Japan and Russia .... why did he do that? What was his interest?
Hitler invaded Poland .... why did he do that? What was his interest/reasoning?
In triangle ABC, AB = AC, and the angle at A is 40°.
What are different approaches to find the measure of angle B?
Let's discuss the pros and cons of a state lottery?
A household is faced with the following economic challenge **********. What approaches could they use to address the situation?
etc.
-----------
Success requires separating students into groups of similar intellect/capacity, and proceeding at a rate which will push while maintaining interest. Data also suggests gender segregation works best in 2° level classrooms.
Posted on 11/5/26 at 10:23 am to NC_Tigah
quote:I guess it would depend on the metrics used to measure the quality of public education.
I guess your view would entail a presumption that our public educational system has been broken over the span of generations. I'm not sure I'd buy that.
Brookings is a right-leaning think tank. OECD consists of 100 countries.
quote:What would account for declines in literacy before the trend toward that ideology took hold? Or do you think it did start taking hold of educators in the early 80s?
It is not the unions per se, but rather Weingarten's ideology of politics preempting pupils which is the core problem. The result is an extreme leftist ideology currently infesting the unions, and by default, our schools. I'd suggest, while such an approach is now existential, it is not a multigenerational problem.
quote:How can someone be critical of anything without critical thinking?
Critical thinking and fact-based positivism is anathema to critical theorists
quote:I guess we'd have to define this more narrowly to draw any real conclusions. Critical theory was developed in Europe in the 1920s and 1930s. The term "critical theory" was coined in 1937.
The result is an observable and well documented absence of rational thought, and capacity for logical reasoning in our student populations.
I did a quick Google search about when critical theory was applied to public education in the USA. The AI summary, which I didn't fact check at all, says it was first applied in the 70s. That would correlate with some declines in literacy levels, but I do wonder about other factors that were also impactful during that period like the Vietnam War, Watergate, stagflation. There was plenty of civil unrest outside of classrooms at the time.
Thanks for sharing the video. I can't watch it right now, but I'm going to come back to it later.
Posted on 11/5/26 at 10:38 am to LSUnKaty
quote:I agree with Milton Friedman who saw education as a tool to produce good citizens. In his groundbreaking 1955 essay, The Role of Government in Education, Friedman made a compelling case identifying education as a public good.
Why not?
I agree with Friedman’s core rationale for supporting public education: a literate population is essential for a stable, democratic society. Basic literacy ensures that a populace can receive, comprehend, and evaluate information; these critical thinking capabilities act as a foundational prerequisite not only for informed individual decision-making, but for critically evaluating government action. I think this explains our move toward standardized everything in education. It's a way for our political leaders to avoid accountability while also ensuring a bottom-tier workforce that will accept drudgery without question.
quote:Good for her! And I mean that sincerely. Teaching sucks a lot of teachers. It contributes a lot, too, but it's a very taxing profession. I know you know this :)
My wife was a teacher and eventually got so fed up she retired.
Posted on 11/5/26 at 10:48 am to 4cubbies
quote:
Brookings is a right-leaning think tank.
Lolno
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