re: Another Point of View on Abortion

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Respectfully, I obviously disagree here but I don't want to derail the thread going down this road

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Can you please elaborate? I'd like to understand your rationale on why you disagree with that statement?

I can go first if you'll indulge me a bit:

On the topic of morality, i.e. what is "good" vs. what is "evil". Based on your previous responses, it can be inferred that you acknowledge the existence of what is considered "evil" or "wrong" - e.g. murder of a baby.

Then how can you have "evil" without "good" if you have nothing to compare it against? And if there is "good", then what is the standard of "good"? Because to be considered "good", there needs to a standard. And if there is a standard of "goodness" or morality, then it follows that there needs to be a law-giver of said moral code or goodness.

If you don't agree, then why is there such things as the judicial system? On which standard are laws based? Can I walk into a court room and declare to the judge that my standard of evil and good is different from theirs so therefore my case cannot stand in their court of justice?

So I will ask again, what/who is the standard of good? There can only be one.

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The woman still has her body whether she has an abortion or not, thus it's not a question of "my body/my choice".

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that is simplistic.

What is the precedent for the notion that the state can force a woman to serve as a biolgical incubator for an organism that she does not wish to incubate?

Radical individualism and autonomy has been an idealized, if not entirely practiced, theme in America for years

It's paying us very few dividends for those of conservative thought. I generally support the concept, but I also think we're meant to live as communities of families, with folks pulling their own weight, contributing to the community voluntarily, and voluntarily submitting to the community's decisions on things of high health/security/moral concern. If you elect not to do that, you leave the community.

There is no real hope for that model in the USA as it stands, but states and localities making these decisions is how the country is intended to thrive. I think abortion qualifies as something of heavy moral concern that the community can have a say on, as it goes to the very essence of humanity the the value of life.

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Radical individualism and autonomy has been an idealized, if not entirely practiced, theme in America for years

It's paying us very few dividends for those of conservative thought. I generally support the concept, but I also think we're meant to live as communities of families, with folks pulling their own weight, contributing to the community voluntarily, and voluntarily submitting to the community's decisions on things of high health/security/moral concern. If you elect not to do that, you leave the community.

There is no real hope for that model in the USA as it stands, but states and localities making these decisions is how the country is intended to thrive. I think abortion qualifies as something of heavy moral concern that the community can have a say on, as it goes to the very essence of humanity the the value of life.

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Well put.

I don’t agree with almost anything said in that meme.

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What about vaccines? Was the pro abortion crowd wanting to force vaccines on everyone?

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I am a strong proponent of abortion rights and a vocal opponent of mandatory COVID vaccines.

Why? Because the citizen, and not the State, should control the citizen’s body and health decisions.

Consistency. Everyone should give it a try.

Probably already said but that argument should be specifically pointed to the mother claiming the baby's body and its rights. It absolutely has rights.

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Can you please elaborate?

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No, because...

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I don't want to derail the thread going down this road

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I'm in an unenviable position, in that politically I fall right of center, but as an atheist I am constantly pushed outside by the religious faction of the right because I don't subscribe to the same worldview. It's not enough to agree politically, I must ALSO subscribe to the religious faith as well. I see it here constantly, and I know it's what keeps some like me from getting under this tent.

On the flip side, my lack of faith would be no obstacle to most on the left, yet I'm diametrically opposed to most of what they believe.

In Left World I'm seen as a raging right wing lunatic and in Right World I'm seen as one of the least trustworthy people in society for simply being atheist. Hell...yesterday Crowder had Douglass Murray on his show to talk about his new book that they'd obviously agree on 98% of what was written and yet he couldn't help himself but the argue about Murray's term "Christian Atheist" when describing himself, when all it meant was an atheist brought up in a Christian society and who generally thinks that society is worthy of keeping even if you don't believe the tenets of the faith.

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It is a logically fallacious argument in the context of abortion. To make it you have to simultaneously argue that people have a right to bodily autonomy (mother) and do not have a right to bodily autonomy (baby).

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And your position is entirely dependent upon accepting YOUR premise that a fetus has ANY rights whatsoever … including one of “bodily autonomy.”

If you balance even the most insignificant right of an entity who does HAVE rights against the interest of an entity that has NO legal rights, the first entity wins automatically.