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re: America's Underclass: the crucial issue in a more socialist society
Posted on 8/3/18 at 9:10 am to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 8/3/18 at 9:10 am to SlowFlowPro
Subsidize something you get more of it
0
Posted on 8/3/18 at 9:14 am to Revelator
quote:
but what is the solution?
In my opinion, there isn't one. I honestly don't think we can turn back from economic/societal collapse at this point. We may push it back a bit from time to time, but it's going to happen.
I don't know what it will look like, but it will be ugly and nasty.
ETA: I will add that I would try to be as far away from a major city as possible when it happens though. Civilization as we know it is a veneer, and a thin one at that. Imagine several days with power out and access to food and water cut off in a place like Chicago or LA.
This post was edited on 8/3/18 at 9:21 am
Posted on 8/3/18 at 9:17 am to DirtyMikeandtheBoys
Gimme a break.
Are you actually suggesting that the Trump Administration doesn’t cater to entrenched corporate interests?
Are you actually suggesting that the Trump Administration doesn’t cater to entrenched corporate interests?
Posted on 8/3/18 at 9:17 am to SlowFlowPro
Under socialized medicine do you get to pick your doctor? If you live in Ohio can you come to MD Anderson in Houston? How is pay determined for doctors? Do the best doctors make more money than the worst doctors? Is there any financial benefit for a doctor to specialize? Does a doctor have any say about his client base?
Under socialized medicine will the best doctors leave the system and move to “private” practice leaving the government funded health care system looking exactly like the current VA system? (I think yes)
Under socialized medicine will the best doctors leave the system and move to “private” practice leaving the government funded health care system looking exactly like the current VA system? (I think yes)
Posted on 8/3/18 at 9:22 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
will increasing government services decrease the underclass culture
No, that train has left the station.
A big point you omitted, the underclass is a huge weight on the current healthcare system, driving up cost for the rest of us. A medicare type of coverage for the underclass would prove less expensive to the non underclass.
Posted on 8/3/18 at 9:23 am to VOR
quote:
re you actually suggesting that the Trump Administration doesn’t cater to entrenched corporate interests?
Yes, I am 100% suggesting that. Open your eyes moron. If he was catering to their interests they would not be dong everything inside and outside their power to remove him.
The swamp wants a majority underclass society of dependents
The entrenched corporate interests wants a majority underclass society of dependents
Donald Trump wants prosperity for American society
Posted on 8/3/18 at 9:29 am to SlowFlowPro
The problem is not the existence of the underclass. We have always and always will
have an underclass.
The problem is the depravity of the underclass.
Go to an emergency room and spend time with the people that are there on a weekday night because their kid has a cold.
The underclass of 100 years ago would be scandalized by the run-of-the-mill behavior of the current underclass.
I believe it’s Theodore Dalrymple who talks about how the elites abandoning traditional morality (but being smart enough to still live productive self sufficient lives) has destroyed the social fabric of the underclass who aren’t as capable.
Then throw in government assistance that encourages and rewards the worst behavior and basically what you get is degeneration.
have an underclass.
The problem is the depravity of the underclass.
Go to an emergency room and spend time with the people that are there on a weekday night because their kid has a cold.
The underclass of 100 years ago would be scandalized by the run-of-the-mill behavior of the current underclass.
I believe it’s Theodore Dalrymple who talks about how the elites abandoning traditional morality (but being smart enough to still live productive self sufficient lives) has destroyed the social fabric of the underclass who aren’t as capable.
Then throw in government assistance that encourages and rewards the worst behavior and basically what you get is degeneration.
Posted on 8/3/18 at 9:32 am to uway
large depraved underclass = enrichment for select government elites
it's socialism 101 for as long as the practice has existed.
The people in position to change policy, do so to increase depravity/dependence, meanwhile enriching themselves. Then a radical (MAGA) comes along and smashes their board game.
it's socialism 101 for as long as the practice has existed.
The people in position to change policy, do so to increase depravity/dependence, meanwhile enriching themselves. Then a radical (MAGA) comes along and smashes their board game.
Posted on 8/3/18 at 9:32 am to SquatchDawg
quote:
When you cut through all of the BS our problems really boil down to one simple thing. Too many people want shite and there are too few people willing to work to pay for it.
This and lack of personal responsibility and consequences for bad decision making.
Posted on 8/3/18 at 9:35 am to SlowFlowPro
The problem Jacob is that you keep using Marxist language to frame your ideas.
Class theory, all that jazz, those are not products of the enlightenment. The American revolution was a product of the enlightenment and is devoid of class structure. Unfortunately American academics went to when is now Germany in the late 19th century and picked up all of Hegel and Marx’s bullshite and the brought it back to American university beginning the modern era of progressivism that we now see today.
Class theory, all that jazz, those are not products of the enlightenment. The American revolution was a product of the enlightenment and is devoid of class structure. Unfortunately American academics went to when is now Germany in the late 19th century and picked up all of Hegel and Marx’s bullshite and the brought it back to American university beginning the modern era of progressivism that we now see today.
Posted on 8/3/18 at 9:38 am to SlowFlowPro
There will always be an underclass. However, there should not be government programs to encourage its success and expansion.
That is the problem we have in this country. It is too comfortable being poor.
Being poor should be miserable. I'm not saying they should starve in the streets (OK, I may be saying that, but let's pretend I'm not right now), but they should definitely be motivated to do better.
In no situation should ANY person on government assistance be encouraged to reproduce, much less rewarded for it. They should be chastised and ridiculed and their existence made more difficult.
One of the prevailing themes of our society should be significantly decreasing the underclass. This should not be done by giving them more, but by taking away from them. This will cause them to either improve themselves, or hopefully reproduce less -- or both.
Posted on 8/3/18 at 9:41 am to SlowFlowPro
"what happens if we expand our safety net and the underclass population share grows?"
Excerpt from Democratic Play book
Commandment number 1 right there.
Excerpt from Democratic Play book
Commandment number 1 right there.
This post was edited on 8/3/18 at 9:42 am
Posted on 8/3/18 at 9:41 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
the social side is much scarier, especially now that the left has embraced a social philosophy of trying to eliminate criticism of the social aspects of the underclass.
Very important point. It's easy to sell economic socialism to poor people (see south America in the 70's). Social consequenses are much more difficult to hide, imo. Thats why they artificially elevate their sacrosanct social underclasses and shame anything mainstream. The left also needs to change the "american" mentality of rugged individualism, the ideal of economic independence, and the shame of public assistance. In order to do this, they have to silence those who espouse these ideas. Its not often a leftist can lock horns with a conservative or libertarian and win a battle of logic. It's easier to shut them up.
Posted on 8/3/18 at 9:46 am to Lakeboy7
quote:
. A medicare type of coverage for the underclass would prove less expensive to the non underclass.
but would basically segregate them entirely, which likely would become illegal due to how we interpret poverty as a racial construct
this is my solution to the health care issue though. take all of our public spending on health care, shave about 20%, and put it in one pile. that amount is used to offer medical coverage for all US citizens. you just have to go fill out paperwork and opt in. then we let government regulate how to ration this care among those who opt in
however, anyone is still able to purchase private insurance
also, no regulations mandating treatment by HCPs if they accept some government-funded clients, they don't have to accept any more of them.
that's about the only middle road solution that is tenable for the population
Posted on 8/3/18 at 9:51 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
but would basically segregate them entirely, which likely would become illegal due to how we interpret poverty as a racial construct
Tough titty, you sell it as health insurance for "everyone" and jump right over all the implications.
quote:
anyone is still able to purchase private insurance
Absolutely, dont punish producers with shitty govt run healthcare.
Posted on 8/3/18 at 9:56 am to Lakeboy7
quote:
the underclass is a huge weight on the current healthcare system, driving up cost for the rest of us
You state this as a fact. Where are you getting this fact?
Posted on 8/3/18 at 10:02 am to roadGator
quote:
You state this as a fact. Where are you getting this fact?
He's right. When Lakwanda brings her five rugrats in to the ER for colds and of course can't pay, who do you think foots the bill?
Which is why EMTALA should be killed with fire. Reagan really fricked up with that one.
Posted on 8/3/18 at 10:05 am to Centinel
quote:
When Lakwanda brings her five rugrats in to the ER for colds and of course can't pay, who do you think foots the bill?
yeah there has to be a less expensive way to do this.
Posted on 8/3/18 at 10:07 am to Centinel
OK. That person's claim is being paid no matter what though.
It's just a money shuffle.
It's just a money shuffle.
Posted on 8/3/18 at 10:08 am to roadGator
quote:
OK. That person's claim is being paid no matter what though.
It's just a money shuffle.
Ya, a money shuffle from people who can pay to people who can't.
Lakwanda doesn't pay, the hospital overcharges those who do (via insurance).
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