re: Actor Shia LeBeouf converts to Catholicism

It is truly ridiculous.

People like FooManChoo are worse than anyone. Just garbage humans

Of all the Christian denominations…Catholicism?

quote:

---

He was a child star who prob got diddled, so he should fit into this group well.

---

Woah bub.

quote:

---

It is truly ridiculous.

---

Two things.

First, I loved those all discussions/arguments about religion, evolution, etc. I spent WAY too much time on the board back then jabbing back an forth on those topics, and I think most of us that were involved in them had a good time. If not, like every other thread on all of the boards here, it's super easy to NOT click them and never have to be bothered by them at all. But, like most Karens, that was not possible and they whined and got them banned.

Second, as much as I miss them, most of us here are on the same side of the big issue of why this board exists, which is POLITICS. The country is literally being torn apart and I just don't have the interest or effort to get distracted arguing about whether or not we ought to have In God We Trust on money or Under God in the Pledge right right. I sure as shite don't have the interest into getting into theological arguments that have even less to do with what's happen in the world RIGHT NOW. To me, it the very definition of rearranging deck chairs while the Titanic goes down.

But...the mileage of others clearly varies.

quote:

---

Do you even know how the Catholic Church was before Martin Luther came along? It was bonkers. Illegal to own a Bible. It was chained up in the church and written in a language you couldn’t read if you wanted to see it. Illegal to preach in anything other than Greek or Hebrew. Indulgences.

---

The organizations that were in power 700-2000 years ago were all flawed.

Marin Luther believed in the burning of Jew synagogues and expressed violet views toward Jewish people. Is this something you believe in? He also went after the Catholic people. Do you believe in violence toward Jews and Catholics?

In fact, many scholars believe that his antisemitic teaching lead to the overall antisemitic views in Germany and the Nazi Party. For the record I have respect for him, especially his translations, but then again I don't hold historical figures to the same code of conduct as we practice today.

I hope to say, of course you don't and that was something in the past and as a people we have moved beyond this. If you can move on from his violent teachings, why wouldn't that apply the Catholic Church?

quote:

---

You really should root for these Hollywood types when they turn toward Christ at all. We need to be on the same team, even when debating our faiths, in the years ahead as the world grows more and more hostile toward people of faith.

---

Amen.

quote:

---

Very true. Simple intellectual knowledge of God or Jesus is not sufficient to save anyone as it isn't a heart knowledge brought about by the Spirit. True, saving faith is evidenced by the production of good works that flow from the Spirit's work in us, not us working apart from the Spirit.

---

Foo, we've had some great dialogues over the years, and I very much respect you and your scriptural + theological knowledge. I will not sling mud at you like some of the other comments in this thread.

I am Catholic, which you know, and I agree 100% with your interpretation of the relationship between faith and works. Where exactly is your beef with Catholicism on this issue? You seem to be taking a Catholic teaching from somewhere and twisting its interpretation so as to mean "faith doesn't matter; it only matters that you take X, Y, or Z action and you'll be saved" which is most decidedly not the spirit of Catholic teaching, especially not in the modern era.

Honestly, I find the debate over “faith vs. works” so incredibly silly and asinine that at this point, I can only roll my eyes. I simply don’t even get it.

You know who else didn’t get it? One of the greatest modern Christian theologians, C.S. Lewis. Who wasn’t Catholic, but I know you know that.

He once wrote that arguing over faith or works is like arguing which blade of a pair of scissors is more important. Does someone who claims to have faith, yet does nothing to live out the mission and calling of the being in which they claim to have faith, really have true faith?

Think of it this way. An accounting student in college claims to have faith in his professor, who he believes will prepare him for a good accounting job when he graduates. Yet the student doesn’t do any of the readings, projects, or homework which the professor has assigned him. Is that faith? Not really. I would argue that what he calls “faith” in his professor is actually more like “hope.” Now, hope is still a theological virtue and thus very important for Christians. But we’re not talking about “hope or works;” we’re talking about faith or works. If the student isn’t willing to take any steps that his professor has told him to take, then what good is his “faith” in his professor doing? If it is faith at all, then it is a selfish and lazy faith, concerned only with the faithful's eventual reward.

This makes total sense when put in the context of James 2:

“What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.”

Clearly, James is claiming that there is such a thing as “dead faith.” Otherwise, he could’ve said, “faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, isn’t faith at all.”

So here’s a big question…does a dead faith get one into Heaven alongside the believers who possess living faiths?

Or looking at the inverse of Lewis’ example, would the other scissor blade, good works alone suffice without faith? I’ll leave that one be, since I’m sure all Christians would agree on that answer.

Regardless, the point that Lewis was making is that faith and works go naturally hand-in-hand like lamb and tuna fish. And to argue that one is more important than the other is a useless endeavor.

This might come as a shock, but as a Catholic, I do not wake up in the morning and nervously think to myself “oh man, I better do enough good works today, or else I won’t go to Heaven.” Rather, the first thing I do is drop to my knees and thank God for the gift of another day and the blessings in my life, ask for forgiveness for my sins, and pray for the strength and guidance to carry out his will in the day ahead. That connection to God is then what inspires me to want go out and do good works, not because I’m such a great and worthy person, but because God has empowered me to do so through the Holy Spirit. That’s why I believe it is so important to “pray always.”

If I failed to take any action on my faith, I would be blatantly neglecting the message of Matthew 5:

“14 You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven."

I didn't necessarily write all that for your benefit, but rather for any passers-by reading this thread who may benefit as well.

quote:

---

Do you even know how the Catholic Church was before Martin Luther came along? It was bonkers. Illegal to own a Bible. It was chained up in the church and written in a language you couldn’t read if you wanted to see it. Illegal to preach in anything other than Greek or Hebrew. Indulgences.

---

Protestants do strange things too. The Catholic Church actually acknowledged that reform was necessary. And Luther would be horrified by many Protestant denominations.

quote:

---

Most Catholics I know are the same as you and me. Although they may go to confession to a priest, how is that any different from a dying soldier on a battlefield or the sinners crucified with Jesus that confessed their sins and were forgiven regardless of the life they lived prior?

---

It's based on the role of a priest, which is unbiblical with Christ as our high priest and all Christians being called priests in a common sense (1 Pet. 2:9)

Confession of sin is good, and we should confess our sins to one another. We have no obligation to approach a priest to confess our sins so that they can be forgiven. We can boldly approach the throne of grace with Jesus as our high priest and mediator, and confess our sins to Him through prayer and receive forgiveness.

quote:

---

I say this being someone who maintains a personal relationship with the Almighty but does not follow any man-made edict of what I HAVE to be or do to be saved. It is not up to you or your interpretation nor is it any other man's interpretation of the scripture.

---

How do you know you have a personal relationship with God? What is the basis for that relationship? How do you know you are in right standing before Him?