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re: Actor Shia LeBeouf converts to Catholicism
Posted on 8/26/22 at 6:19 pm to Champagne
Posted on 8/26/22 at 6:19 pm to Champagne
quote:Double predestination is just the notion that God both elects some people to salvation and elects others to damnation. That's the logical outcome of God being sovereign over election.
Martin Luther believed in Double Predestination. Very close to your heretic and unbiblical belief system.
0
Posted on 8/26/22 at 6:19 pm to tommy2tone1999
quote:Thank you for your rebuttal.
You were wrong
Posted on 8/26/22 at 6:20 pm to Fat Bastard
quote:
what a ignorant moron. proves yet again you do not know jack shite about biblical history or scripture interpretation. get help soon clown
Well this post sure changed my opinion. Nicely articulated.
Truth be told, you have no idea why you believe what you believe. You just get offended when someone challenges your thoughts, which is why you lash out. Bummer.
Posted on 8/26/22 at 6:21 pm to Champagne
quote:The canon is merely the full breadth of God's Word, written down for posterity. The canon was completed with the last writing. It did not require a formal declaration of a church body for it to exist.
Modern Protestant scholarship says you are dead wrong about this and admit that the canon comes from the Catholic Church.
quote:It's a good thing that consensus doesn't determine truth, then.
Much of your heretic theology is out of step with Mainstream Protestantism.
quote:Yes, because historic Christianity is the same thing as Branch Davidian beliefs.
You might as well be a Branch Davidian at this point, Foo.
Posted on 8/26/22 at 6:23 pm to Stitches
quote:Whatever the scriptures are used for, verse 17 says that the man of God man be complete, equipped for every good work by them.
I know you posted this way earlier, but I have to respond to this. It doesn't say that scripture is sufficient. It's says that scripture is useful in preparing the man of God for every good work. Not solely sufficient.
Posted on 8/26/22 at 6:27 pm to Champagne
quote:Jesus is the Word incarnate, and the scriptures are God's Word in that they point to Christ. Not every word of the Apostles is God's Word, or are you going to say that the Apostles handed down everything that Jesus gave to them, even though were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written."?
Have you not read Scripture where it is written in John that "The Word of God" is the Son of God, Jesus Christ? Do you not believe all that Jesus Christ Himself handed down to the Apostles?
The Prophets said many things that weren't written in the OT, either, but what was preserved from the Prophets were preserved because those were the things necessary for the Christian (OT Jew) to know.
quote:It's not self-contradicting. You just don't understand the doctrine. I also don't deny "some of what Jesus Christ Himself handed down" because I don't deny the Bible.
If you believe in the self-contradicting doctrine of Sola Scriptura, then you deny some of what Jesus Christ Himself handed down.
quote:Thank you for your interest in the sport.
Learn WHY we say that you are a Theological Fool, and a demonic vicious one, at that here:
Debunk Sola
Posted on 8/26/22 at 6:28 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
Whatever the scriptures are used for, verse 17 says that they are USEFUL/HELPFUL in preparing the man of God that he MAY be complete, equipped for every good work by them.
Again, not solely and entirely sufficient
This post was edited on 8/26/22 at 6:28 pm
Posted on 8/26/22 at 6:35 pm to KiwiHead
quote:
You can't have it both ways and that is what you seek or attempt to do. Your contention is that if you believe that you have Jesus' saving grace from the cross that's enough.
I respectfully disagree...for two primary reasons
1. Romans 2:11 says verbatim the following "11For there is no respect of persons with God."
LINK
That said, when the clearest example of salvation occurs deliberately in the Bible at the cross where the criminal confesses his faith in Christ, he is immediately saved. Ergo, a sincere faithful profession of faith in Jesus as Lord and Savior is the moment one is saved. Couple that with cross-referencing Romans 2:11...if the faith filled confession was good enough for the criminal on the cross it is good enough for ANYBODY.
2. As others have noted, when one accepts Jesus as their Lord and Savior, sincerely, then they are filled with the Holy Spirit. They have crossed the threshold of the unpardonable sin in rejecting the Holy Spirit's call on the heart to accept Jesus. The next closest backslide so to say is committing a sin unto death perhaps. My contention is that even then there is a cap on what someone can do in terms of evil based on the indwelling Holy Spirit, so it is not a carte blanche so to say...if one sees it as such, I would immediately question their point of salvation as being disingenuous.
I think a lot of people, those who feel sanctification comes from works as well, get the wrong idea about folks who believe that once they are saved then the rest of their actions do not matter since one is always saved from the point of salvation in this belief system. Obviously they, actions, do matter as those actions can affect others and turn others away from salvation by the same token. Setting poor examples of "living right" is just inviting scrutiny. For example, I get revved up and passionate in my posts here some and let some words fly. But I don't go around looking to live lasciviously or amorally as an example. My words are definitely a vice on occasion though and I should try to do better admittedly. But my heart isn't sitting here scheming about what next evil thing to do because "I can". That's not at all how genuine Christians think.
This post was edited on 8/26/22 at 6:37 pm
Posted on 8/26/22 at 7:40 pm to Crimson1st
quote:
.if the faith filled confession was good enough for the criminal on the cross it is good enough for ANYBODY.
I’m going to need you to explain like I’m five how the criminal’s action qualifies as “faith” but not a work. He took an action of his own free will and acknowledged Jesus as the Messiah. Was it necessary for him to have said anything? Why or why not?
Posted on 8/26/22 at 8:45 pm to Undertow
Roman Catholics are not a Christian denomination.
Posted on 8/26/22 at 9:35 pm to Crimson1st
Why not act lascivious? All that matters you believe, correct? Sure being a good person and being charitable and temperate in your actions is a good thing, but not necessary. Go to church on Sunday, praise God and Jesus, believe you have been justified....sanctified by the holy spirit and if so, you go to heaven, no other effort is needed, , you've been saved . You got your grace, God's righteousness, life and power given by unmerited favor....no need to pay it forward, not necessary.
So I can wake up Monday morning and be that lascivious person, mindlessly engage in sin...I don't need to engage in good works, be a good person, it's extra, lagniappe. I have been saved by the blood, after all. So Hitler is Billy Graham using that justification. Other than being responsible for a " few" deaths, if he believes in that saving gift of grace for himself he's just as deserving and Billy has no right to cut in line.
So I can wake up Monday morning and be that lascivious person, mindlessly engage in sin...I don't need to engage in good works, be a good person, it's extra, lagniappe. I have been saved by the blood, after all. So Hitler is Billy Graham using that justification. Other than being responsible for a " few" deaths, if he believes in that saving gift of grace for himself he's just as deserving and Billy has no right to cut in line.
Posted on 8/26/22 at 9:43 pm to lsu480
Why not? I got grace, an unmerited gift.
Posted on 8/26/22 at 9:54 pm to FooManChoo
Where amI wrong? He was egging it on. I don't excuse the Inquisition or French Catholics...I'm certainly not going to excuse a demagogue like Calvin, either. Besides Servetus was the high profile death. There were several others that he gins up, whips the Council members and citizens into a frenzy and results in deaths.....of course, not by Calvin's hand. Besides he had that unmerited gift from God and Jesus....did not matter what happened, he was a righteous man....justified,sanctified.
Posted on 8/26/22 at 10:20 pm to UGATiger26
quote:
I’m going to need you to explain like I’m five how the criminal’s action qualifies as “faith” but not a work. He took an action of his own free will and acknowledged Jesus as the Messiah. Was it necessary for him to have said anything? Why or why not?
Holy mother of hair splitting Batman…upon the criminal’s faith, he confessed his belief. That’s not quite what I would call “doing good works” to earn salvation when you’re literally nailed to a cross. Sure if you want to say uttering his convictions to Jesus was an action, fine…the point is when he believed and in turn spoke his faith filled words, that’s all it took. He was saved on the spot.
Posted on 8/26/22 at 10:26 pm to KiwiHead
quote:
So I can wake up Monday morning and be that lascivious person, mindlessly engage in sin...I don't need to engage in good works, be a good person, it's extra, lagniappe. I have been saved by the blood, after all. So Hitler is Billy Graham using that justification. Other than being responsible for a " few" deaths, if he believes in that saving gift of grace for himself he's just as deserving and Billy has no right to cut in line.
Kiwi you’re conflating what the subject matter is and what is being said. Nobody is here saying you can just half heartedly say you’re a believer then use that as a tool to live as you wish, be evil, yada…a true Holy Spirit filled Christian is not going to act in the manner in which you described.
In a nutshell, your good works don’t save you…your good works are a by-product of salvation by grace through faith.
This post was edited on 8/26/22 at 10:27 pm
Posted on 8/26/22 at 11:10 pm to pevetohead
I think it counterproductive to focus on the details of any particular form of Christianity. Different people require and find spiritual prosperity via different practices; one might get close to God (God is Love) witnessing the ages old ceremonies of the Catholic Church whole another feels the same gazing at a sunset all by their self. Some people need to be reminded every day to focus on the 'spirit' as opposed to the temporal cares of struggles of this particular life, while some see every single act as a spiritual challenge and opportunity for growth.
As to the validity of a particular person's Faith, there is a list of "fruits of the (Holy) Spirit" which supposedly becomes the essence of one's essential character when one knowingly commits and is "born again", "receiving the Holy Spirit (of Truth0. Those "fruits" are "love, joy, peace, patience, meekness, gentleness, kindness" and "against such there is no law". To the degree that an individual manifest these fruits, their Faith is validated.
I do believe that people are pre-destinated, as we are born into this life some with genetic and cultural advantage whole others get slammed from the git go. It is an extraordinary Soul who gets slammed but overcomes it, as one's formative childhood really sets the mold for life. The non-believers call this "life's lottery" but those of us who Believe, if they so desire to know, see the Light of Truth.
I work with the Catholic Church, they are smart, disciplined, committed to their Faith and their Faith meets their needs. They battle against the forces which seek to deceive and destroy Love just as people whose Faith is in their heart and mind and requires no form of Institutional doctrine, dogma or practice. Of course, Institutions are powerful, and where "the carcasse lies the birds will gather". Evil will seek out the powerful and corrupt, Institutional and Personal. "By their fruits ye will know them"...the "fruits of the Spirit" listed above.
I think it good to respect and love all people who worship Love via any particular form of Religious Ideology. It's easy to love people who love, hard to bear those who don't. But that was the task Jesus laid down as a qualifier for His Mercy. A high bar for sure.
There is an idea which rationalizes the incongruity of predestination, but I'm too tired and most Christians don't like to entertain it anyway. They want to live one life and go to 'Heaven' where there is no chance to be overcome by the challenge of evil. I suspect it'll be one's personal desire and Jesus' decision on that. Myself, like my Grandpa, I'd like to come back in the same scenario that I began and lived this life in and get a do over with the caveat of inheriting the wisdom and talents which I have acquired in this life's struggles, early in my next life. I've heard a lot of people say that "oh if I only knew then what I know now...". For me, that would be 'Heaven'; assuming I always have Jesus to back me up, and forever to kill time.
I don't know who Shia Lebeouf is but I wish him well. It'll be what he makes it.
As to the validity of a particular person's Faith, there is a list of "fruits of the (Holy) Spirit" which supposedly becomes the essence of one's essential character when one knowingly commits and is "born again", "receiving the Holy Spirit (of Truth0. Those "fruits" are "love, joy, peace, patience, meekness, gentleness, kindness" and "against such there is no law". To the degree that an individual manifest these fruits, their Faith is validated.
I do believe that people are pre-destinated, as we are born into this life some with genetic and cultural advantage whole others get slammed from the git go. It is an extraordinary Soul who gets slammed but overcomes it, as one's formative childhood really sets the mold for life. The non-believers call this "life's lottery" but those of us who Believe, if they so desire to know, see the Light of Truth.
I work with the Catholic Church, they are smart, disciplined, committed to their Faith and their Faith meets their needs. They battle against the forces which seek to deceive and destroy Love just as people whose Faith is in their heart and mind and requires no form of Institutional doctrine, dogma or practice. Of course, Institutions are powerful, and where "the carcasse lies the birds will gather". Evil will seek out the powerful and corrupt, Institutional and Personal. "By their fruits ye will know them"...the "fruits of the Spirit" listed above.
I think it good to respect and love all people who worship Love via any particular form of Religious Ideology. It's easy to love people who love, hard to bear those who don't. But that was the task Jesus laid down as a qualifier for His Mercy. A high bar for sure.
There is an idea which rationalizes the incongruity of predestination, but I'm too tired and most Christians don't like to entertain it anyway. They want to live one life and go to 'Heaven' where there is no chance to be overcome by the challenge of evil. I suspect it'll be one's personal desire and Jesus' decision on that. Myself, like my Grandpa, I'd like to come back in the same scenario that I began and lived this life in and get a do over with the caveat of inheriting the wisdom and talents which I have acquired in this life's struggles, early in my next life. I've heard a lot of people say that "oh if I only knew then what I know now...". For me, that would be 'Heaven'; assuming I always have Jesus to back me up, and forever to kill time.
I don't know who Shia Lebeouf is but I wish him well. It'll be what he makes it.
Posted on 8/27/22 at 1:51 am to ShoeBang
quote:
I love when Protestants can’t help it and show their true hypocritical side when it comes to Catholics.
Because we don’t view Catholics as true Christians. They have paganism and Christian beliefs all conflated together. Kind of like Muslims and Mormans. Muslims believe in Jesus Christ they think he was a prophet. Norman’s believe he was the son of God but not God. Catholics believe you can be saved by faith “alone” but also have to do works like going to mass, confession, many of the Catholic sacraments. So they don’t believe in the finished work of Jesus Christ but will try to explain that Mary had no other children when clearly the Bible states otherwise or that she was forever a virgin, never mentioned in the Bible, that she was born without original sin which impossible for anyone other then God himself. Which is the case for Jesus. Believe that Mary is an intercessor along with Christ…. I know the argument it’s like asking a preacher or a friend to pray for you. Only problem is Mary isn’t omnipresent, or omniscience she can’t read minds and not even sure she can look down from Heaven or the saints or my grandparents for that matter. Trying to give God like qualities to others like Mary, the Pope or Priest in confession for forgiveness of sins. Blasphemy!
And I worked at EWTN and the monastery for 8 years. So I’ve been around good Catholics. Just brain washed by church history and don’t study the Bible for themselves. I was Catholic during that time. I studied like the Berra s and show myself approved now.
Good luck to all on their journey with God. Do your own research. Study Judaism more, learn their history and traditions more, and many things in the New Testament for the “Church” will become more clear. Only way to describe how to interpret the Bible is to think of it as a 3D sheet of music intertwined with future, historical and present times meanings.
Posted on 8/27/22 at 1:57 am to CorchJay
I fell for that Born Again b******* when I was in my early twenties. So according to you am I still so-called saved? Even if I know it's all b*******.
Posted on 8/27/22 at 2:46 am to FooManChoo
Ok Foo, you clearly are the final authority here. Good night and pray for me.
Posted on 8/27/22 at 2:50 am to CorchJay
I’m no Catholic, but the attack on them in this thread couldn’t be more disheartening.
Jesus wept.
Some of you so-called Protestants need Jesus.
Jesus wept.
Some of you so-called Protestants need Jesus.
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