re: 74% of Democrats, Majority of Americans Support Single-Payer Health Care System

Agreed, but their numbers do have some merit that should cause us to engage in healthy discussion and debate about alternatives.

We don't have a horrible system, but it is far from great.

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To be fair though, that's not the argument single payer proponents are making.

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Absolutrly correct. They do not want people to realize this.

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shave off the part where the insurance companies make profit, and then let the government have it.

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iThis wouldn’t fund isht.

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It's amazing, after witnessing the VA, medicare/medicaid, that someone could still come to the conclusion that government is best at handling healthcare.

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The same people in charge of the F35 will bring you healthcare. Let that sink in for a moment.

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I guarantee you that none of the dems prancing around this thread have any idea what the fallout of a single payer system would be.

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I wish they would just institute it in california just to get the idea of the shitstorm it would cause

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Obama and Dems could have simply taken the 12M Amerians or so who had no healthcare insurance and put them on Medicaid

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They can do this now, and before Obamacare. They just have to spend their own money first.

The retort is always “why should they have to spend their money?” My answer has and continues to be “it life-saving care isn’t enough of a priority to them, why should it be a priority to taxpayers?”

I don’t know what the solution is, but I can say that we have big problems with healthcare, and the way we are having this debate doesn’t allow us to come to any concrete solutions…we just retreat to our political corners.

The first problem is that many people don’t appreciate that our healthcare system consists of multiple smaller systems (medical care, insurance, drugs, diagnostic services, etc.) that work together to obscure the real cost as much as possible and to ensure each makes as much money as possible.

For example, medical care is one component. People want to argue that it should be subject to the market, like other goods and services, but it can’t be and never will be. If you want to buy a new dining room set, you can go to multiple stores, decide to delay the purchase and keep the old one for a while, not buy one at all…any number of options.

If, however, your kid breaks his or her arm at school, they are going to take them to the nearest provider, and you’ll be charged whatever rates you get charged for the provider’s time, the x-rays, lab fees, drugs, etc. You don’t have the chance to comparison shop or to delay the service. Additionally, you will pay a co-pay (based on insurance) and then the insurance company pays the remainder. What’s really crazy, is that if another kid gets the same broken arm, at the same time, and goes to the exact same doctor and has the exact same procedures, it is likely that you will pay different co-pays and that your insurance companies will pay different amounts to the provider based on what they have negotiated. It’s ridiculous that (with few exceptions) there is no one price for anything in healthcare. And, you almost never know when you leave a doctor's office whether you owe any more money until your insurance company sends you a statement.

Second, we have insurance, which is a conduit to medical care, diagnostic services, drugs, etc. What these folks do is negotiate with the providers on one hand to set certain prices for every possible procedure and then negotiate on the other side with employers. Depending on how many people are in an employment group, their rates and prices are different – both with the provider and the employer. So, my Aetna plan might cost me so much per month, and my neighbor’s same Aetna plan might cost a different amount. Additionally, depending on prior conditions, some people can’t even get insurance.

The real catch is that everyone makes money…so much so, that now in some places, hospitals are starting to provide their own healthcare plans.

Third, why do we saddle employers with the responsibility of being the conduit to healthcare through insurance? This is also ridiculous. Whatever system we create, I would like employers to be out. It’s a drag on business and sometimes restricts certain employees from changing jobs (ie, someone with previous cancer).

I want a system that has set one set price per provider for procedures, that is portable, that untangles healthcare/insurance from employment so we can raise wages, and provide greater levels of transparency.

But, maybe that's not possible...

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I want a system that has set one set price per provider for procedures, that is portable, that untangles healthcare/insurance from employment so we can raise wages, and provide greater levels of transparency.

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I've never understood this either. Took took of my children to the optometrist a few weeks back , get their eyes checked. I get one bill for $100 and another for $200. .I'm like "wtf , they had the exact same testing done" the receptionist looks it up and says "oh we had one of your children down as not having eye insurance for some reason" SO they billed me $100 for the exam for the child who did not have insurance and then $200 for the child with insurance (for which I would pay and then get reimbursed by the insurance company since they pay for one eye exam per year)

Now , in my eyes, they just ripped that insurance company off of $100 since I find it HIGHLY unlikely that they discount the uninsured patients by 50%.

I complained and told them to just charge me as if neither child had insurance, not because it was my money , but because it's the right thing to do.

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For example, medical care is one component. People want to argue that it should be subject to the market, like other goods and services, but it can’t be and never will be. If you want to buy a new dining room set, you can go to multiple stores, decide to delay the purchase and keep the old one for a while, not buy one at all…any number of options.

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It is subject to the market. Even full-NHS style systems are subject to some sort of market, whether they be the dominant buyer (like Britain) or the only buyer (like Cuba), there is always a market. For that matter, what happens in the US healthcare market affects the British system. It's always some form of market, and I think it's important to remember that.

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If, however, your kid breaks his or her arm at school, they are going to take them to the nearest provider, and you’ll be charged whatever rates you get charged for the provider’s time, the x-rays, lab fees, drugs, etc. You don’t have the chance to comparison shop or to delay the service. Additionally, you will pay a co-pay (based on insurance) and then the insurance company pays the remainder. What’s really crazy, is that if another kid gets the same broken arm, at the same time, and goes to the exact same doctor and has the exact same procedures, it is likely that you will pay different co-pays and that your insurance companies will pay different amounts to the provider based on what they have negotiated. It’s ridiculous that (with few exceptions) there is no one price for anything in healthcare. And, you almost never know when you leave a doctor's office whether you owe any more money until your insurance company sends you a statement.

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You'll get no argument that pricing is opaque, but most studies have shown that transparent pricing doesn't move prices as much as you'd think in American systems.

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Second, we have insurance, which is a conduit to medical care, diagnostic services, drugs, etc. What these folks do is negotiate with the providers on one hand to set certain prices for every possible procedure and then negotiate on the other side with employers. Depending on how many people are in an employment group, their rates and prices are different – both with the provider and the employer. So, my Aetna plan might cost me so much per month, and my neighbor’s same Aetna plan might cost a different amount. Additionally, depending on prior conditions, some people can’t even get insurance.

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I mean, that's kind of the definition of insurance pricing. People with higher risks pay more.

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The real catch is that everyone makes money…so much so, that now in some places, hospitals are starting to provide their own healthcare plans.

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This has been around for a long time, and it's actually a way for providers to try and keep costs down. Kaiser Permanente and its ilk have been around since the 1940's.

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Third, why do we saddle employers with the responsibility of being the conduit to healthcare through insurance? This is also ridiculous. Whatever system we create, I would like employers to be out. It’s a drag on business and sometimes restricts certain employees from changing jobs (ie, someone with previous cancer).

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Agree 100% on this.

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I want a system that has set one set price per provider for procedures, that is portable, that untangles healthcare/insurance from employment so we can raise wages, and provide greater levels of transparency.

But, maybe that's not possible...

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It's probably possible to a degree, but ultimately, the problem with America's healthcare system is a demand problem. That's hard to fix without a huge cultural attitude adjustment on how healthcare should be delivered.