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Started By
Message
re: Todd Masson caught trespassing?
Posted on 12/5/24 at 9:37 am to Ron Cheramie
Posted on 12/5/24 at 9:37 am to Ron Cheramie
quote:
If he is in the natural bayou that’s one thing. In a man made trenasse that’s something else
1
Posted on 12/5/24 at 9:42 am to Ron Cheramie
quote:How does this matter assuming the water body is not navigable at statehood?
If he is in the natural bayou that’s one thing. In a man made trenasse that’s something else
Posted on 12/5/24 at 10:01 am to White Bear
quote:
How does this matter assuming the water body is not navigable at statehood?
I’m not sure of the question here.
We have different means of navigation than they did back in the day
T-boy in a dugout canoe in 1850 is different than flatbill Braxxtynn in daddy’s surface drive tearing up marsh to jump shoot coots to put on the gram
Also not sure why people get hung up on the word “navigable”
Navigable does not give you the right to hunt it or fish it
This post was edited on 12/5/24 at 10:08 am
Posted on 12/5/24 at 10:37 am to Ron Cheramie
quote:
Let’s say a pipeline came through my marsh or they dug a trenasse through the middle of that remaining 100 acres
One of the major problems right here.
Posted on 12/5/24 at 10:54 am to Ron Cheramie
quote:
Also not sure why people get hung up on the word “navigable”
Navigable does not give you the right to hunt it or fish it
Because it's part of the language in historical Louisiana statues, but does get wrongly applied, mainly because Louisiana sucks at this...
It's also part of other state and federal laws, statues, and court cases... etc... very long history of it appearing in language concerning this subject.
Act 645 of 1978 (La. R.S. 41:1701) set the scope:
? “The beds and bottoms of all navigable waters and the banks or shores of bays,
arms of the sea, the Gulf of Mexico, and navigable lakes belong to the state of
Louisiana, and the policy of this state is hereby declared to be that these lands
and water bottoms, hereinafter referred to as ‘public lands’, shall be protected,
administered, and conserved to best ensure full public navigation, fishery,
recreation, and other interests.”
Posted on 12/5/24 at 10:57 am to Ron Cheramie
A starting point is to review what other coastal states have in place and go from there.
Posted on 12/5/24 at 11:01 am to tigersownall
Is AlxTgr in here?
Cool, just checking. He's got it under control.
Cool, just checking. He's got it under control.
Posted on 12/5/24 at 11:05 am to White Bear
The Shumate case was filed by some fishermen/duck hunters who were getting arrested for trespassing by hunting on farm fields and fishing in a lake which they only gained access to whenever the Mississippi River rose to certain levels. I don’t know how it impacts this incident but it probably does.
Posted on 12/5/24 at 11:07 am to Dock Holiday
quote:
Also not sure why people get hung up on the word “navigable”
• “If it be capable in its natural state of being used for purposes of commerce, no matter in what mode the commerce may be conducted, it is navigable in fact and becomes in law a public river or highway.” Ramsey River Rd. Property Owners Assoc. v. Reeves, 396 So.2d 873, 876 (La. 1981).
• “Navigability, in the sense of the law, is not destroyed because the watercourse is interrupted by occasional natural obstructions or portages; nor need the navigation be open at all seasons of the year, or at all stages of the water.” Ramsey River Rd. Property Owners Assoc. v. Reeves, 396 So.2d 873, 876 (La. 1981) (citing Economy Light and Power Co. v. U.S., 256 U.S. 113 (1921).
Posted on 12/5/24 at 11:14 am to AlxTgr
The only way to completely resolve the issue is to gate off and fence in your property water or not. And if their is a true bayou that runs through it you have to allow access.
I understand both sides.
I understand both sides.
Posted on 12/5/24 at 12:35 pm to Ron Cheramie
quote:ok navigable muddys the water, let’s say “state-owned bed and bottom as of 1812?”
I’m not sure of the question here. We have different means of navigation than they did back in the day
Posted on 12/5/24 at 12:36 pm to deltafarmer
quote:I’m only saying I recall the Shumate case stated the public, etc has the right to navigate to high water mark but not hunt and fish same.
The Shumate case was filed by some fishermen/duck hunters who were getting arrested for trespassing by hunting on farm fields and fishing in a lake which they only gained access to whenever the Mississippi River rose to certain levels. I don’t know how it impacts this incident but it probably does.
This post was edited on 12/5/24 at 12:40 pm
Posted on 12/5/24 at 12:39 pm to Ron Cheramie
quote:State owned beds and bottoms are sometimes called “navigable”, whether currently navigable or not. The means of navigation has no bearing on navigability in this sense.
We have different means of navigation than they did back in the day
Posted on 12/5/24 at 1:13 pm to tigersownall
Watched that yesterday. Hope he does a follow up if he gets contacted by leo.
Posted on 12/5/24 at 1:17 pm to Ron Cheramie
quote:
Let’s just say someone in 1812 someone owns 1000 acres of marsh surrounded by water It’s 2024 and now that actual land is 100 acres and 900 acres of open water I still pay taxes on the whole 1000 acres Let’s say a pipeline came through my marsh or they dug a trenasse through the middle of that remaining 100 acres It’s now navigable for anyone but I still own that and pay taxes on it I don’t want anyone coming through tearing up my stuff Also navigable does not mean you can fish/hunt there And with the new equipment nowadays that can run anywhere (mud motors, airboats, etc) that further tear up what remaining land we have in the marsh I can see that side There are certainly places that are 100% in the wrong for posting leather that is public. I would have to know exactly the situation here before I jump to conclusions
It’s not 1812 any more.
If you own 100 acres of land, you should be paying taxes on that, not 900 acres of open water that’s adjoining other open water.
If someone runs a pipeline through your land, are they paying you?
Who dug an access through your land? You? The pipeline company? If it connects to public water, then the public should have access.
Posted on 12/5/24 at 1:30 pm to LSUbub12
quote:
This is why BASS won’t have the classic in New Orleans again or allow anglers to fish the Louisiana side of the Sabine either. It’s an archaic law that needs to be changed. From my understanding, aren’t we the only gulf coast state with this law?
It was interesting, one guy in a BASS event was one spot out of making the cut, he protested the guy one spot in front of him, claimed he fished an unmarked, yet private area.
That guy was disqualified, and the protestor made the cut.
The guy who was disqualified filed a protest, after the event was over BASS realized they made a mistake, he was actually fishing legal water.
It was too late to make it up to the guy who was disqualified.
It’s an archaic law that needs to be done away with, some people have marked public water as private to keep people out.
Your state lawmakers could fix it if they weren’t occupied erecting giant Afro pick memorials.
Posted on 12/5/24 at 1:58 pm to White Bear
quote:
I recall the Shumate case stated the public, etc has the right to navigate to high water mark but not hunt and fish same.
This is what I understood. Which is concerning to a lot of people who wonder if the same could be applied to waters below the high-water mark too...basically all rivers, ect. Obviously the lawyers didn't want to take it that far since there would've been public outcry. Because it only affected a smal group of sportsmen then the case didn't get the attention should've and might've helped lead to the unfortunate ruling. IIRC, the judge was rumored to have been a hunting guest prior on the property in question. So maybe not totally impartial.
Posted on 12/5/24 at 2:07 pm to Ron Cheramie
quote:Agreed. The navigability test or determination applies to using those waters as a means of commerce or a means of travel (such as a highway through your property on land). It does not mean you have the right to stop and recreationally use said navigable waterway, the same way you can't just set up and shoot squirrels in the middle of the interstate median...
Also not sure why people get hung up on the word “navigable”
Navigable does not give you the right to hunt it or fish it
This has been beaten to death in courts with nothing definitive to show for it. It's as Grey and cloudy now as it was at inception. It will likely never change either.
This post was edited on 12/5/24 at 2:25 pm
Posted on 12/5/24 at 2:19 pm to Ron Cheramie
quote:
I think it was a trenasse off a bayou so man made Don’t know exactly where which is the rub. If he is in the natural bayou that’s one thing. In a man made trenasse that’s something else
Bubba Q. Public doesn't know if he's turning his boat down a bayou or trenasse.
Posted on 12/5/24 at 2:49 pm to White Bear
I hunted ducks on the farmland a time or two when the river would come up there. Before the court case there was a guy in a brightly colored boat that would ride out and make sure you didn't kill anything if you went from the channel onto their flooded land. They made it to where hunting for most people wasn't worth the harassment which wasn't illegal.
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