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re: WSJ: The U.K.’s Healthcare System Is in Crisis; 500 die every week due to treatment delays
Posted on 2/7/23 at 11:06 am to Zappas Stache
Posted on 2/7/23 at 11:06 am to Zappas Stache
quote:It's amazing that grown-arse adults still fall for the equivalent of "when I'm class president, the cafeteria will serve only candy for lunch and you can have as much as you want".
The Tory government that has been in power for the last 12 years have consistently underfunded the NHS.
The UK government nor economy have been swimming in money. And it's always entertaining when proponents of how "cheap" those systems are, immediately resort to "they are underfunded!" every time problem surface.
Face it. Take the L. NHS is isht. Always has been.
0
Posted on 2/7/23 at 11:22 am to whatiknowsofar
quote:
Dissenting opinions
i think the term you are looking for here is: uninformed.
Posted on 2/7/23 at 11:30 am to 93and99
quote:
Just say you don't want minorities and the poor to have benefits, it would be a lot more honest..
wow
Posted on 2/7/23 at 11:30 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Take on guess at how we ended up with the current insurance system tied to your occupation?
WWII. Actually listened to a podcast on this a few months back. During WWII in an effort to combat inflation the government instituted price caps and wage caps. In order to compete on something other than wages, businesses started offering health insurance and the IRS agreed not to tax it. Post WWII while Europe was making the national health care systems, the US was going through the Red Scare so any national health care was shot down as communism almost instantly and health care insurance stayed tied to employment. The IRS went through several additional debates on whether it should be reclassed as a taxable benefit or not, but ended up settling on non-taxable.
No idea what argument you were trying to make, but I do find the "how we got here" story an interesting one.
Posted on 2/7/23 at 11:30 am to Upperdecker
quote:
Now sit down and shut up
Nah, you are showing your ignorance without even realizing it.
Switzerland health insurance is basically a more economically sane Obamamcare, where people operating insurers on the exchange are governed by unique rules and regulations. That division must be non-profit, they can not go above certain thresholds in compensation if you oversee that direct business. Those operating on the market are free to have other for-profit enterprises and many do, and be compensated from them. Zurich, you moron, does not even have Swiss health insurance as it's core business. It owns General Insurance, Global Life and Farmers, and operates all over the globe. Their core business is property, life, auto, and accidental. "We are Farmers" Thats Zurich...
You are doing that thing where you are trying to learn as you go, anchored to talking points you never bothered to validate, and becoming more absurdist with every new post, only exposing how little you have ever actually learned on the topic and therefore how worthless your opinions are.
Posted on 2/7/23 at 11:34 am to Aubie Spr96
quote:
Wounded Warriors or any of the countless non-profits that specialize in that sort of thing and healthcare vouchers from their former employer so they can make their own care decisions.
so basically your solution is magical charity filling the gap, not even markets, just...charity.
I think I rest my case.
quote:
Again, forcibly requiring me to pay money for someone else's healthcare
do you even understand how insurance works?
Posted on 2/7/23 at 11:38 am to Ross
quote:
I kind of wonder what the ramifications would be if obesity was treated the same way as tobacco use when it came to health insurance premiums. Obesity and the corresponding side effects of heart disease seem to pose a staggering burden on the American health care system.
The Country That Taxes People For Being Too Fat (Japan)
quote:
In 2008, it introduced the Metabo law, which required all men and women aged between 40 and 74 to have their waist measured by their employer on an annual basis. The limits were set to 33.5 inches (85cm) for men and 35.4 inches (90cm) for women, and anyone who breached these figures was required to attend weight loss classes funded by the employer's health insurance company.
In essence, it meant that if you were at risk of becoming obese, your company was required by law to help you get back into shape. In addition, if companies could not reduce the number of overweight employees by certain thresholds each year, they would be subject to fines and be required to pay money into a health care program for the elderly.
Posted on 2/7/23 at 11:38 am to Bronc
quote:
basically your solution is magical charity filling the gap, not even markets, just...charity.
Is that why all of these children’s hospitals that never ever charge a patient are floundering? Because Americans lack all charity?
News flash, when people have more money (less taxes) most people give more to charity.
Is it the only solution? No. Is it a viable and proven one? Yes. The fact that you dismiss it so derisively shows that the only solution in your mind is complete government take over and management of 1/6 of our economy.
No thanks
Posted on 2/7/23 at 11:41 am to Bronc
You’re comparing a country with over 8 million people to one with over 330 million. And not only does Switzerland have a much smaller population, there per capita GDP is higher.
What works there won’t work here. Different situations.
What works there won’t work here. Different situations.
This post was edited on 2/7/23 at 11:43 am
Posted on 2/7/23 at 11:42 am to StormyMcMan
I mean I would likely support that endeavor, and given we penalize tobacco use for its adverse health effects it seems there is precedent for that kind of thing. Ideally you'd want to keep your citizen's body fat content below a certain healthy threshold.
I think it would have to be one facet of a multifaceted approach. We have to incentivize better diets. You can do all the cardio in the world, but it ultimately won't make a difference if you are eating a 1000 calorie surplus over your base metabolic rate on a daily basis. I think not allowing EBT to purchase macronutrient deficient but calorically high foods is a start, but also we should lower taxes or maybe even subsidize healthier foods over unhealthy foods.
That doesn't mean cardiovascular exercise isn't important as a supplemental tool, and I think that's where urban planning sort of comes in. Having the markets be a walk away or a bike ride away would help a lot, like it does in nations like the Netherlands.
I think it would have to be one facet of a multifaceted approach. We have to incentivize better diets. You can do all the cardio in the world, but it ultimately won't make a difference if you are eating a 1000 calorie surplus over your base metabolic rate on a daily basis. I think not allowing EBT to purchase macronutrient deficient but calorically high foods is a start, but also we should lower taxes or maybe even subsidize healthier foods over unhealthy foods.
That doesn't mean cardiovascular exercise isn't important as a supplemental tool, and I think that's where urban planning sort of comes in. Having the markets be a walk away or a bike ride away would help a lot, like it does in nations like the Netherlands.
Posted on 2/7/23 at 11:45 am to Oilfieldbiology
quote:
The fact that you dismiss it so derisively shows
I dismiss it cause I can read history.
As medicine advanced, costs rose, older Americans, if they weren't already locked out, simply couldn't afford healthcare.
Charity failed to cover the gaps and so more and more old people had to move in with children, rely on them as caregivers, were dying earlier than necessary, and it became near unsustainable.
Medicare didn't appear out of a vacuum, it was a solution to an intensifying problem of older people unable to get the care they needed. The VA was established due to the influx of need due to WWI, then WWII. But vet benefits have been around since the Revolutionary war.
And back then this wasn't even a divisive issue in mainstream politics, the sides were incrementalists like Johnson(who was ok keeping the private system for under 65 and above income thresholds), government Universalists like Ted Kennedy(that wanted single payer for all), and regulatory universalists like Nixon(who supported mandatory employer healthcare for all workers and expanding Medicare)
This post was edited on 2/7/23 at 11:52 am
Posted on 2/7/23 at 11:57 am to Bronc
quote:
where people operating insurers on the exchange are governed by unique rules and regulations. That division must be non-profit, they can not go above certain thresholds in compensation if you oversee that direct business. Those operating on the market are free to have other for-profit enterprises and many do, and be compensated from them.
Those aren’t real CEOs. They’re division managers. They answer to a real CEO. That’s why they get paid small dollars and real CEOs get paid big dollars. Again, showing why you’re grossly wrong here
Posted on 2/7/23 at 12:02 pm to Bronc
Our health care system is fantastic. We can e-mail our PCP and get replies the same day. When I needed hip replacement it was done in 2 weeks and part of the wait time was for training classes. People in countries with socialized medical care have to wait months or even a year to get hip replacements.
Socialism sucks. With socialism there's never enough supply because there's no incentive to supply. That's why people from socialized countries marvel when they walk into our grocery stores and see all the competing supplies.
Socialism sucks. With socialism there's never enough supply because there's no incentive to supply. That's why people from socialized countries marvel when they walk into our grocery stores and see all the competing supplies.
This post was edited on 2/7/23 at 5:49 pm
Posted on 2/7/23 at 12:04 pm to Upperdecker
quote:
Those aren’t real CEOs. They’re division managers. They answer to a real CEO. That’s why they get paid small dollars and real CEOs get paid big dollars. Again, showing why you’re grossly wrong here
You just tried to use the CEO overseeing Farmers Insurance to try and claim that Swiss health insurance CEO's make 12 million a year.
You are showing your familiarity with the topic is literally minutes old.
Which all stemmed from me challenging you to provide details about what added value the for-profit head of American health insurers are adding over the insurers that have to operate like non-profits and have comparatively low pay at the top of their. And FYI, there are exchange-only non-profit insurers, and most are equally competitive.
And that's because there is no magical new actuary formula that a CEO is putting together in his executive suite. They are focused on justifying salaries to the board via maximizing income and keeping expenses as low as possible.
The trick is to stop thinking healthcare CEO's are your friends and are guided by saving you money and concern for the common welfare. There value is derived in how good they are siphoning money as a middle man.
Posted on 2/7/23 at 12:09 pm to The Boat
quote:
We never once ran out of hospital beds during Covid. One of the biggest fake news fear mongering tactics during the pandemic
I feel embarrassed that people still believe our hospitals didnt have capacity… while then firing staff for not getting a shot… y’know cuz they’re understaffed and at full capacity so let’s fire 50% of our staff!
This post was edited on 2/7/23 at 12:10 pm
Posted on 2/7/23 at 12:19 pm to theducks
quote:
I feel embarrassed that people still believe our hospitals didnt have capacity
The problem wasn't actual beds, it was the lack of equipment such as ventilators, PPE, Covid secured spaces to isolate infected, and qualified critical care nurses(you cant just throw an untrained nurse in a different department like PEDS into the ER if they don't have experience or training, especially when they need to know how to operate things like ventilators and specific procedures).
It is obviously unrealistic for any system to just have enough of everything on standby indefinitely in case any number of capacity-threatening emergencies occur, but American hospitals, especially as they consolidate and operate on stricter margins, very much can not deal with even small sudden emergencies. Even a major wreck can overwhelm a unit pretty quickly cause they only staff to the baseline, and that baseline that is set leaves little room for overage.
Posted on 2/7/23 at 12:49 pm to Bronc
quote:
and does a poor job giving them access to resources to treat it
It quite literally just takes going to Subway instead of McDonalds and walking for an hour a day.
Posted on 2/7/23 at 1:46 pm to member12
And to think... All those articles that I read several years ago praising NHS as a beacon...after that little girl was deemed by a NHS board to be beyond medical hope and the parents pleaded release the child to go to Italy...
Nah can't be the same NHS that is dysfunctional and bureaucratic
Btw one of the few times Ive ever written a reply to an editor... Article claiming that " in America ( little girls name) would have racked up millions in medical bills".
Nah can't be the same NHS that is dysfunctional and bureaucratic
Btw one of the few times Ive ever written a reply to an editor... Article claiming that " in America ( little girls name) would have racked up millions in medical bills".
Posted on 2/7/23 at 2:19 pm to Bronc
quote:
You just tried to use the CEO overseeing Farmers Insurance to try and claim that Swiss health insurance CEO's make 12 million a year.
You’re using the title CEO for a division manager that reports to executives in the larger company and directly comparing it to CEOs that are actually the chief executive of their companies. It’s apples to oranges
Posted on 2/7/23 at 2:21 pm to member12
quote:
Healthcare systems, hit hard by Covid...
Let the deflection begin!
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