re: Would it have been better if Germany would have won WW1? The First One.

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Plus, the OP did not mention the 27 million dead WW II Russians, the 3 million dead WW II Polish, the 3 million dead pogrom/WW II Jews and the 500,000 dead WW II gypsies. 25 million dead Germans too.

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I thought saying "WW2 doesn't happen" covered that.

Exactly.

I hate alternate history discussions because they so often take how nice the world is now (relatively speaking) for granted.

This happens, and while its cheery sounding on the surface, we may lose:

1) a non aggressive and overwhelmingly powerful international military alliance that essentially kept a major war from any kind from occurring for generations

2) the trans-Atlantic alliance/Special Relationship with England

3) US probably doesn't become a superpower/hyper power



If nothing else, keeping so many equal imperial/national powers intact from your scenario only postpones WW2 and changes the players, it doesn't prevent it.


And I'll submit that postponing WW2 would have had fatal consequences for the world due to nuclear weapons.

I honestly think the only reason why we didn't have a war in the aftermath of their invention was due to the sociopolitical dynamic from having the tension of two military units that were evenly opposed and head and shoulders over everyone else.

Tense stalemate where rash choices were stifled.

Becasue

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I hate the uninformed redneck American. France was a military badass. Them being pussies is one of the biggest falsehoods this board likes to push.

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The reason for this is because the majority of white folks in the South are of English, Welsh, Scottish and Anglo-Irish descent. They are rather Anglo-Saxon in outlook, so, they have little regard for non Anglo Saxon achievements.

I have no idea why, in a World War One thread, some idiot would see the need for a comment about French surrender. In World War One, French soldiers were routinely ordered to defend ground to the Death. They were routinely ordered to make frontal attacks on entrenched German machine guns, and they routinely took heavy casualties.

I just went to itunes and realize I have this in my cloud. Then I remember someone posting this on here a while back. Don't know why I never started on it.

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I just went to itunes and realize I have this in my cloud. Then I remember someone posting this on here a while back. Don't know why I never started on it.

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If you aren't 100% satisfied I'll personally come buy you a beer. I don't put my name on anything I don't 100% recommend.

Except when I do.

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I hate the uninformed redneck American. France was a military badass. Them being pussies is one of the biggest falsehoods this board likes to push.

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x1000

This has always been a history "what if" that's intrigued me. First off, the whole world power structure as we know it now would be totally different.

An early victory by the German Empire, say in the fall of 1914, would mean the survival of the monarchies of Europe. The German Empire would be the main European Power with Austria-Hungary as their main ally. But what if the other main powers? That's anyone's guess, and here is mine.

Great Britain: they come from the war still relatively intact. They still have their navy, but not undisputed command of the sea thanks to the still growing Imerial German Navy. GB still has its overseas empire that span the globe. And most importantly, GB is still rich and not up to its eyeballs in American debt. I think I'm this post WWI world, there would be a sort of "cold war" between GB and Germany in the decades following the German victory. Would that Cold War ever turn hot? There's no way to know for sure.

France: France would be in turmoil. They'd just be coming off a second losing war in less than 50 years. I see France entering into a period of strife similar to what was seen in Germany during the early 20's. The most likely outcome of this turmoil I believe would be a political revolution with a Socialist/Communist government taking power eventually. Before WWI broke out, there was a very strong socialist movement in France. This movement waned in the patriotic zeal at the start of the war. But after a French defeat and the turmoil that would follow, I could see the socialists regaining their allure, especially since they were the only ones in France who opposed the war from the start.

Russia: The Romanov dynasty would be shaken but not broken from losing a short, sharp war agaisnt Germany. Had the war ended in 1914, Lenin would still be in exile in Switzerland so he'd still be a nonplayer. The Russian public would not go through years of privation from a long drawn out war. In short, things in Russia would not be ideal, but the conditions for revolution would not be there... Yet. The problems for Russia would not be totally gone, rather just pushed back. Russia still had an uncertain future thanks to the very sick heir to the throne. It's doubtful the crown prince would live long enough to ever take the title of Czar. Basically, the Romanov dynasty was almost at its end anyway. With this in mind, the future of the Russian Empire within the next 20 or so years was very much in doubt. The only question is what would follow? Would Russia take on a democratic form or would it eventually turn to socialism/communism?

U.S.: The US would still be a growing economic power. Already before WWI, America was an emerging world power economically speaking. The main question after a short WWI is which camp would America join? Would the US still become a close ally of Great Britain? Or would the US chose to ally itself with a strong Germany? It's long been a given here in America that Great Britain is our closest friend. But that's not always been the case. There's a good chance that in this alternative world the US would see that befriending Germany was in its best interests. There were numerous economic areas of potential conflict between America and Great Britain. It's possible the US would choose to ally itself with Germany.

Italy: with an early German victory, Italy never enters the war. Before the war they'd been allied to Germany so this alliance would remain intact. Would an Italy who never had to bleed in WWI later on try to fulfill its dream of dominating the Med? And what would this mean for relations with the Austrians? I could see there being an eventual war between these two over who is the main power in Southern Europe.

Ottoman Empire: If the war ended in early fall, the Ottomans never even enter the war. This mean the unrest among the Arabs stirred up by the Brits never happens. I think there would still be eventually some sort of uprising. But would it lead to the collapse of the Empire without any outside help while the Empire is locked in a bloody war on multiple fronts against major world powers? That's doubtful. I think more than likely the Ottomans retain control over the Middle East and, as oil becomes more and more important, the Ottoman Empire becomes similar to modern day Saudi Arabia, only richer. One thing of interest here is Persia. With the war ending in 1914, none of the outside influences of WWI would come into play. Persia would continue to grow in wealth due to its own oil reserves. Would Persia and the Ottomans have their own "Cold War"? Would that eventually lead to a shooting war? How would the Middle East emerge from such a war?

Japan: Just as the US was an emerging world power before WWI, so was Japan. The question now though is how would Japan's rise in the Pacific look with an altered WWI? Japan entered the war in August 1914 so they'd still have been in the middle of things. In fact, they'd still have time to seize German holdings in the Pacific. With Germany winning the war shortly after, would Japan be forced to give them back? Then there's the question of what followed this. French-Indochina would be ripe for the picking. Great Britain would still have its Pacific holdings. Then there would be the matter of the US. With all theses players on the table, I thinks there is still a good chance for a war in the Pacific at some point in the first half of the 20th century. But what would this war look like? You could have Japan allied with Great Britain fighting a war against Germany and the US. The outcome of that war is anyone's guess.

(I apologize for what I'm sure is a litany of typos. I'm on my phone so I'm sure there are many)

Thank you sir.