re: Would it have been better if Germany would have won WW1? The First One.

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Scenarios like this is exactly why I enjoy playing the hell out of Sid Meier's Civilization games

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Hell yeah! I'm actually playing as Poland right now in Civ 5.

Everyone falling to my artillery and land ships

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Going off of this, do you think the Great Depression happens? It's been a very long time since I studied the Great Depression. But if I remember correctly, we had the Roaring 20's, then the Great Depression started in the late 20s and into the 30s. Then the industrial boom that came with WWII lifted us out of the Great Depression. Right? Or atleast assisted. But in this scenario, WWII doesn't happen in the late 30's/40's.

Scenarios like this is exactly why I enjoy playing the hell out of Sid Meier's Civilization games.

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Hmmm. Now that's a great question. The short (and most accurate) answer of course is simply that we cannot know. But if we just left matters at that, then this thread would have no point. Having said that, let's go back to my original assumption that WWI in the West ended sometime around September 1914. In fact, let's say the Battle of the Marne, instead of stopping the German advance on Paris, ended with the Germans taking Paris by mid-September 1914. Give them about 4-6 weeks to move troops east and the whole show is over by mid-November 1914 at the latest, that's assuming that once France & Britain are out the war the Russians did not sue for peace themselves in September.

Having set the table, let's look at where the NY stock markets set at that time. First off, trading on the NYSE had halted when WWI broke out. Trading did not resume until November, which is, in this alternative universe, when I'd guess the Germans would have won the war at the latest. The question now is how would the markets have reacted to reopening in November following a German victory? This is just a guess, but I'd say initially stocks would slide lower, perhaps much lower to the point that it's not inconceivable there would be a crash.

So what then? What if the American Stock exchange crashed in late 1914? Well, there would be a recession to be sure. But would this in turn devolve into a depression? I'm going to guess that it would not. The main reason I say this is (1) the market was not "soaring" in 1914 as it was when the crash of 29 took place. And (2) there was not nearly the same amount of capital and debt tied up to the stock exchange in 1914 like there was in 1929 and thus the markets would not drag down the whole economy with it as it went down.

Having said all this, I'd guess the period between 1914 to perhaps as late as 1918 or even 1920 would see a general downturn in the American economy. I think it would be a good chance of this being a sharp recession but I don't see it becoming a depression, much less a "great" one.

So what then? What of the 1920's? If the downturn ends sometime between 1918 and 1920 does that mean there would be a "roaring 20's"? Again, I'm doubtful. I say that because one of the main ingredients that created the roaring 20's was a massive infusion of money into the American economy thanks to WWI. Without a drawn-out war in Europe, that massive infusion of money into the US economy never happens. Thus, what we know as the "roaring 20's" would be nothing more than a minor footnote in history denoting when the American economy was starting to recover from the downturn caused by the "European War of 1914". And without the roaring 20's, you likewise never have the Great Depression either, which would still not have happened due to the factors I described above.

I wouldn't say things would be "better," but I defy any red blooded male to study the history and the iconography of the German Empire and not get a little bit of a semi by the sheer badassness of it all.

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You are at your absolute best in history threads.

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+1

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I wouldn't say things would be "better," but I defy any red blooded male to study the history and the iconography of the German Empire and not get a little bit of a semi by the sheer badassness of it all.

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The Imperial German army fascinates me. Hell, the Wehrmacht and the Luftwaffe do to, but you don't have as many idiots calling you a nazi if you express admiration for the Imperial army.

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Here's another question. If WW1 ends in a German victory after a relatively short time, do we have the 18th and 19th amendments voted in?

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It's doubtful, at least for several more decades. Perhaps the 19th would be passed eventually.

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Here's another question. If WW1 ends in a German victory after a relatively short time, do we have the 18th and 19th amendments voted in?

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Even after WWI, the US was isolated. Women's suffrage may have been boosted by the role of the American woman in WWI but Prohibition was not related to WWI

My US History professor at LSU once stated that alcoholism was rampant in the 1800's and carried over into the 1920's leading to prohibition.

In the 1890's the per capita consumption of distilled spirits was nearly 1 gallon annually. Think about that figure for a second

Religious Temperance movements were around since the foundation of our country. I cannot see a correlation between WWI and the causes of prohibition other than seeing WWI vets bury themselves inside a bottle to escape what they saw on the battlefield...

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In the 1890's the per capita consumption of distilled spirits was nearly 1 gallon annually. Think about that figure for a second

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Is that a misprint? Do you mean monthly?

They were lightweights then. Hell, I'll drink a gallon over a weekend of tailgating.

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Women's suffrage may have been boosted by the role of the American woman in WWI but Prohibition was not related to WWI

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I disagree. Prohibition and women's suffrage were intrinsically tied together.

That was mostly a joke.

But damn teetotalers

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This issue is what first made large numbers of women begin to think about political matters.

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My assertion is that women got "involved" when they saw so many of their men fall victim to alcoholism. This predates WWI and thus proves the 18th/19th amendments were unrelated to WWI.

There's also an interesting theory on wiki regarding prohibition being a metaphorical battle between rural christian values and urban corruption/excess.

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Prohibition represented a conflict between urban and rural values emerging in the United States. Given the mass influx of migrants to the urban centers of the United States, many individuals within the prohibition movement associated the crime and morally corrupt behavior of American cities with their large, immigrant populations. Saloons frequented by immigrants in these cities were often frequented by politicians who wanted to obtain the immigrants' votes in exchange for favors such as job offers, legal assistance, and food baskets. Thus, saloons were seen as a breeding ground for political corruption.[32] In a backlash to the emerging reality of a changing American demographic, many prohibitionists subscribed to the doctrine of nativism, in which they endorsed the notion that America was made great as a result of its white Anglo-Saxon ancestry. This belief fostered resentments towards urban immigrant communities, who typically argued in favor of abolishing prohibition.[33] Additionally, nativist sentiments were part of a larger process of Americanization taking place during the same time period.[34] Political cartoon criticizing the alliance between the prohibition and women's suffrage movements. The genii of Prohibition emerges from a bottle labelled "intolerance". Two other amendments to the Constitution were championed by dry crusaders to help their cause. One was granted in the Sixteenth Amendment (1913), which replaced alcohol taxes that funded the federal government with a federal income tax.[35] The other was women's suffrage, which was granted after the passage of the Nineteenth Amendment in 1920; since women tended to support prohibition, temperance organizations tended to support women's suffrage.[35]

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