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Started By
Message
re: Wisconsin Hospital Replaces All Anesthesiologists with CRNAs
Posted on 4/8/21 at 8:01 am to YipSkiddlyDooo
Posted on 4/8/21 at 8:01 am to YipSkiddlyDooo
quote:
The dumbest thing you keep repeating is pretending like it still applies to situations like the one this entire thread is about. CRNAs have no less med mal liability in situations where there is no anesthesiologist on staff. In no way will they be found less liable than a physician in these situations where the physicians are gone. That’s what we are talking about. 100% CRNA coverage. There isn’t anyone for them to hide behind and no anesthesiologist for the lawyers to go after.
it still applies to whether a cRNA supervised or not.
you continue to selectively ignore important differences in liability.
a medical license is a much bigger time/money investment than a cRNA license by a longshot. the physician has more to lose.
An anesthesiologist is expected to provide a higher standard of care. The same mistake made by a cRNA is less egregious than the same mistake by a physician. Its a large difference having to answer to the medical board vs nursing board.
despite your claims, a cRNA has more potential people/entities to shift blame than an anesthesiologist. so it is true to say that a cRNA just does not have equivalent liability as an anesthesiologist and you are dishonest for suggesting otherwise.
1
Posted on 4/8/21 at 8:01 am to YipSkiddlyDooo
quote:
The dumbest thing you keep repeating is pretending like it still applies to situations like the one this entire thread is about. CRNAs have no less med mal liability in situations where there is no anesthesiologist on staff. In no way will they be found less liable than a physician in these situations where the physicians are gone. That’s what we are talking about. 100% CRNA coverage. There isn’t anyone for them to hide behind and no anesthesiologist for the lawyers to go after.
You are absolutely correct and you can say it until you are blue in the face. It’s like talking to a brick wall. He will never work or see an all CRNA practice function and function well. There is no greater standard of care they are held to like he implied. The standard of care is the standard of care that we all must live up to. Now, there may be different scopes of practice, depending on the facility where you work. I went from putting in 7-8 epidurals a day, to working in a facility that didn’t allow the CRNA’s to do spinals. I would sometimes have to wait and delay the case 15-30 for an anesthesiologist to show up to do something I did numerous times. It was a fast pace OP facility that had 12 OR rooms staffed with CRNA’s and 2 Anesthesiologist daily.
Posted on 4/8/21 at 8:02 am to Success
quote:
AMS doesn’t know what he doesn’t know.
says the person arguing a cRNA faces the exact same liability as an anesthesiologist.
Posted on 4/8/21 at 8:06 am to BeaumontBengal
Facts. No anesthesiologist was involved in my first pts case. He did not consent, nor admin anesthesia, wake up, or post op the pt. What do you think he billed for?
Posted on 4/8/21 at 8:07 am to Success
quote:
The public is so naive to the truth.
Yeah the public is super naive for wanting to be treated by doctors rather than nurses
Posted on 4/8/21 at 8:07 am to AMS
We do. Prove me wrong. I kill someone bc of negligence. I’m f’d.
Posted on 4/8/21 at 8:07 am to coondaddy21
quote:
The standard of care is the standard of care that we all must live up to. Now, there may be different scopes of practice,
same standard of care, but different scope, interesting.... what about the anesthesiologist who has a larger scope and standards vs the more limited scope and standards of a cRNA. nursing board standards =/= medical board standards.
Posted on 4/8/21 at 8:10 am to Success
quote:
We do. Prove me wrong. I kill someone bc of negligence. I’m f’d.
yes still less f'd than the anesthesiologist. higher expectations and standards from the medical board vs nursing board. Risk off loss of license is a much different penalty between the two. its just not the same no matter how you feel about it.
Posted on 4/8/21 at 8:11 am to AMS
He’s talking about the ASA standards of care that have to be met for each case. If an anesthetic is given, the standards have to be met regardless who delivers the anesthesia.
Posted on 4/8/21 at 8:12 am to AMS
Losing my license is different that you losing yours? Interesting.
Posted on 4/8/21 at 8:13 am to Success
quote:
He’s talking about the ASA standards of care that have to be met for each case. If an anesthetic is given, the standards have to be met regardless who delivers the anesthesia.
and who weighs consequences with respect to license? medical board vs nursing board. those boards have different standards.
Posted on 4/8/21 at 8:14 am to AMS
No it doesn’t when it comes to administration of anesthesia. Look up the asa standards of care. That’s the standards we both are held to.
Posted on 4/8/21 at 8:15 am to Success
quote:
Losing my license is different that you losing yours? Interesting.
absolutely, your license is not equivalent. one requires a much larger time/money/resource investment and carries more weight.
Posted on 4/8/21 at 8:16 am to Success
quote:
No it doesn’t when it comes to administration of anesthesia. Look up the asa standards of care. That’s the standards we both are held to.
its like talking to a brick wall if you think the nursing board is the same as the medical board with enforcement of this.
Posted on 4/8/21 at 8:18 am to AMS
There is no nursing standards of anesthesia care I follow. The nursing board would hold me to the asa standards as well as a jury.
This post was edited on 4/8/21 at 8:20 am
Posted on 4/8/21 at 8:19 am to AMS
quote:
a medical license is a much bigger time/money investment than a cRNA license by a longshot. the physician has more to lose.
This has nothing to do with how a med mal case is ruled upon. The court does not change its findings based on how much the provider has invested in his/her education.
quote:
The same mistake made by a cRNA is less egregious than the same mistake by a physician.
This also has no influence on how a med mal case is ruled upon. The patient or his/her family will not get less in monetary damages from the unsupervised CRNAs med mal carrier because there was lower expectations of care.
quote:
Its a large difference having to answer to the medical board vs nursing board.
The court does not care about actions taken by the state boards. Those actions are irrelevant in a med mal case when determining damages awarded to the patient.
quote:
a cRNA has more potential people/entities to shift blame than an anesthesiologist
Who does the unsupervised CRNA shift blame to when there is no anesthesiologist? It can only be the surgeon if the surgeon was negligent in an aspect of care they actually had control over, which is no different than a case done by an anesthesiologist.
Posted on 4/8/21 at 8:26 am to Cs
It is the future - "Doctors" have been pricing themselves out of the market for decades.
It is already happening at urgent care facilities and, increasingly, GP/FP offices where a single MD is providing oversight for clusters of NPs and PAs managing routine and even "urgent" care patients.
It is already happening at urgent care facilities and, increasingly, GP/FP offices where a single MD is providing oversight for clusters of NPs and PAs managing routine and even "urgent" care patients.
Posted on 4/8/21 at 8:28 am to hubertcumberdale
quote:
Idk if there is much scarier than a know it all nurse who wants to play doctor
Sure there is: a physician who thinks they are God himself.
Posted on 4/8/21 at 8:30 am to YipSkiddlyDooo
you may have a point if med mal was the only liability that existed.
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