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re: Will rampant viewpoint discrimination be a permanent fixture in American life?
Posted on 6/16/20 at 10:48 am to Gatorbait2008
Posted on 6/16/20 at 10:48 am to Gatorbait2008
quote:
Best way is still the voting booths.
Let Trump win in a landslide. It will show them their voices have little powe
Nah, this problem isn't solved at a polling place
0
Posted on 6/16/20 at 10:50 am to upgrayedd
quote:
Black lives matter was intended to force people into saying that those lives are the most important, people respond by saying they think every life is important.
this isn't true
not as a whole, at least
nobody said "all lives matter" before BLM, the "all lives matter" was simply a way to shout down BLM
Posted on 6/16/20 at 10:50 am to upgrayedd
Even if BLM isn't about claiming black lives are MORE important, it's essentially a demand carrying the implicit notion that our society (specifically white people) don't value black lives.
It's a stupid premise. And it's complicated by BLM proper being basically a fringe leftist organization that probably represents 15% of American viewpoints.
It's a stupid premise. And it's complicated by BLM proper being basically a fringe leftist organization that probably represents 15% of American viewpoints.
Posted on 6/16/20 at 10:55 am to Salmon
quote:
Trump is already POTUS and this entire thread is about their voices having too much power.
Trump winning helps, because it'll reinforce that America at large isn't swayed in private by the extremists.
But if they stay huddled in silence because we don't want to be cancelled and we don't want to end up with protestors lobbing molotov cocktails at our homes, it doesn't fix the issue.
We need the "silent majority" to stop being silent now, before an inevitable pendulum swing in the other direction gets beyond the control of reasonable people. If that happens, it'll hurt the average protestor but will be to the absolute joy of the average ANTIFA type.
Posted on 6/16/20 at 10:57 am to Salmon
quote:
"all lives matter" was simply a way to shout down BLM
Why would anyone want to shout down a movement that was rioting, looting and calling for the death of the Police?
Posted on 6/16/20 at 11:03 am to Pettifogger
quote:
At that point, we'll either have widespread conflict (less likely) or enter a period of temporary calm as the radicals realize the moment has passed. It'll come again, and worse next time
Correct. If Trump wins, it'll come again in 4 years.
If Biden wins, you'll still see some crazy shite just because it's an election year, but probably not as bad.
Posted on 6/16/20 at 11:05 am to Pettifogger
quote:What's happened here is that the majority's opinion about systemic racism and the prevalence of police brutality has changed, but you don't like the direction of that change.
There is an authority that exists in our society regarding palatable viewpoints. It's called the majority.
You clearly believe that corporations and other large institutions in society are only supporting this movement due to threats of violence, which, honestly, I find ridiculous. It's a huge overstatement of the both the social impact and power of the small percentage of people in the streets who are looting businesses.
Fortune 500 corporations didn't put out mealy-mouthed statements supporting BLM on social media because they're scared, they did it for the same reason corporations do anything: because they think it will make them money. They sense the shifting public opinion and want to shape their brand in a way that consumers find favorable.
The marketplace of ideas (and the literal marketplace) is exactly what's going on here. Corporations have decided that there is money in appearing to support minority rights, and so they're pursuing it.
This post was edited on 6/16/20 at 11:14 am
Posted on 6/16/20 at 11:06 am to Chuck Barris
quote:
The marketplace of ideas (and the literal marketplace) is exactly what's going on here. Corporations have decided that there is money in appearing to support minority rights, and so they're pursuing it.
All of this is the result of capitalism.
ETA: I agree with your post.
Now, city mayors and councilmen backing down so easily when it comes to their police forces... that’s a different discussion.
This post was edited on 6/16/20 at 11:12 am
Posted on 6/16/20 at 11:07 am to Salmon
quote:
this isn't true
not as a whole, at least
nobody said "all lives matter" before BLM, the "all lives matter" was simply a way to shout down BLM
That altruistic meaning lasted all of about 4 seconds. It then became a "bend the knee" tactic very shortly thereafter.
I don't necessarily think it was used as a means to shout anyone down. I think it was people just trying to use the now archaic concept that everyone's lives should matter equally. But, I'm sure you can make the case it was altered to be some passive resistance to the BLM movement. The notion that it's some racist dog whistle is absurd, though.
Posted on 6/16/20 at 11:11 am to Eat Your Crow
quote:Agreed.
All of this is the result of capitalism.
At the end of the day, "Isn't it awful that my employer can fire me for expressing my political opinion on my own time?" is really just a criticism of the position of the worker in capitalism.
Posted on 6/16/20 at 11:11 am to upgrayedd
quote:
I don't necessarily think it was used as a means to shout anyone down. I think it was people just trying to use the now archaic concept that everyone's lives should matter equally.
Just like BLM, phrases get co-opted pretty quickly.
Posted on 6/16/20 at 11:17 am to Chuck Barris
quote:
The marketplace of ideas (and the literal marketplace) is exactly what's going on here. Corporations have decided that there is money in appearing to support minority rights, and so they're pursuing it.
I don't think this is true (at least in large part).
Nike, for example, may believe it true with Kap. Nike is heavily supported by minority dollars and Kap has solid support within that contingent.
In the Coke hypo, I don't think that's true. In lieu of the hypo, use any boring company that has issued some BLM-support statement even though few if any in that community are customers or targets. The truth is that this is about preservation (we're concerned with being stigmatized or harmed by rioting and avoiding loss), but that's not what you're suggesting.
"There's money in supporting minority causes" =/= "We're going to lose money if we don't bend to the will of the vocal minority"
Do you think Coke really worries that minorities won't drink Coke or that they'll suddenly drink more Coke because Coke supports BLM? Or do you think they're worried that the 10% fringe will call them racist and modern slaveowners and the rest of us will sit silently and be bullied into not drinking Coke (again, with the backing of dishonest media and government who won't prosecute threats and violence)?
That's a fricked up marketplace of ideas, isn't it?
Posted on 6/16/20 at 11:32 am to member12
see Micahel Moore's "when they go behind that curtain" speech before the 2016 election.
Posted on 6/16/20 at 11:38 am to Chuck Barris
quote:
Agreed.
At the end of the day, "Isn't it awful that my employer can fire me for expressing my political opinion on my own time?" is really just a criticism of the position of the worker in capitalism.
Perhaps, but there's definitely a fear of a potential violent retaliation that goes into the making of some of these decisions. Let's not pretend this is just a question of a free market decisions.
Posted on 6/16/20 at 11:38 am to Chuck Barris
quote:
At the end of the day, "Isn't it awful that my employer can fire me for expressing my political opinion on my own time?" is really just a criticism of the position of the worker in capitalism.
You're misconstruing the complaint to make it work for your argument.
I don't think anyone here is making the complaint referenced.
Rather, "Isn't it awful that a small minority can use false rhetoric and threats of violence to bully a corporation into firing someone for saying something most people don't find problematic on their own time?"
Which obviously isn't a statement on the rights of the worker, but on the power of an unjust mob if the majority is scared into silence.
Posted on 6/16/20 at 11:41 am to Chuck Barris
quote:
the end of the day, "Isn't it awful that my employer can fire me for expressing my political opinion on my own time?" is really just a criticism of the position of the worker in capitalism
Posted on 6/16/20 at 11:42 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
the end of the day, "Isn't it awful that my employer can fire me for expressing my political opinion on my own time?" is really just a criticism of the position of the worker in capitalism
It's only applicable if your opinion isn't supportive of progressive fascism.
Posted on 6/16/20 at 11:43 am to Chuck Barris
quote:
What's happened here is that the majority's opinion about systemic racism and the prevalence of police brutality has changed, but you don't like the direction of that change.
People dislike it because it's a lie.
Cops aren't out "hunting" unarmed Black men.
Truth is, the problem exists because Black men more often than not are making terrible decisions that cost them their lives.
People don't like liars.
Posted on 6/16/20 at 11:44 am to upgrayedd
quote:
I think it was people just trying to use the now archaic concept that everyone's lives should matter equally.
Orwell and MLK are zhitting their graves....
Posted on 6/16/20 at 11:46 am to Pettifogger
quote:
Which obviously isn't a statement on the rights of the worker, but on the power of an unjust mob if the majority is scared into silence.
Like I said, these people absolutely factor in the mob coming down to their business and damaging it as well as doxxing when making these decisions to retain or fire.
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