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re: Why do people think electric cars are somehow better for the environment?
Posted on 1/14/19 at 10:51 am to Fireman17
Posted on 1/14/19 at 10:51 am to Fireman17
quote:
If they seen all the open mining done just for batter its very bad for the earth more then gas..
Fracking is pretty freaking dirty, as well.
0
Posted on 1/14/19 at 10:51 am to Darth_Vader
So you really can't imagine a large-scale facility whose sole purpose is to create energy being more efficient on emissions than your POS car? Jesus how much of this petro-chem kool aid you baws been drinking?
Posted on 1/14/19 at 10:53 am to Darth_Vader
Multiple people in this thread has provided videos and data proving otherwise. To which you have responded that emissions is just the tip of the iceberg, while providing nothing more than a statement that our current grid cant handle all the electric vehicles (which doesn't refute any of the provided environmental benefits of electric cars). Now you are claiming, without any links, data, or scientific evidence that electric vehicles are definitively worse for the environment than gas vehicles.
So did you ever really want to discuss the environmental impact of electric vehicles? or did you just want people to confirm your opinion on them?
So did you ever really want to discuss the environmental impact of electric vehicles? or did you just want people to confirm your opinion on them?
Posted on 1/14/19 at 10:54 am to NOFOX
It always baffles me that electric vehicles have become a political issue. Though I shouldn't be surprised.
Lithium is one of the touchstones of the batteries = bad agenda. The reality is the majority of lithium salt recovery is done by evaporation of lithium ponds. It is arguable that the lithium production causes less negative impact on the environment than the production of copper and aluminum for the electric vehicles.
The demand on the electrical grid is a real issue. A significant portion of the need can be met at low demand times. The majority of recharging can easily be done at night when there is an excess of production capability. The bottom line is most of our electricity is produced in ways that are cleaner than using ICE vehicles.
Electric cars can easily beat the performance metrics of ICE cars in every way except range currently. Range is improving and the vast majority of vehicles don't travel more than 300 miles a day.
One thing that is rarely discussed by either side is the economic engine they will become. Cars are one of those cash cow industries that has significant ripples throughout the world economy. The US still has a competitive advantage in the EV market but we will lose it if we continue to play politics regarding it.
EVs are the way of the future and while I am a petrol head I don't want to see the US on the back foot in one of the largest coming markets the world has ever seen.
Lithium is one of the touchstones of the batteries = bad agenda. The reality is the majority of lithium salt recovery is done by evaporation of lithium ponds. It is arguable that the lithium production causes less negative impact on the environment than the production of copper and aluminum for the electric vehicles.
The demand on the electrical grid is a real issue. A significant portion of the need can be met at low demand times. The majority of recharging can easily be done at night when there is an excess of production capability. The bottom line is most of our electricity is produced in ways that are cleaner than using ICE vehicles.
Electric cars can easily beat the performance metrics of ICE cars in every way except range currently. Range is improving and the vast majority of vehicles don't travel more than 300 miles a day.
One thing that is rarely discussed by either side is the economic engine they will become. Cars are one of those cash cow industries that has significant ripples throughout the world economy. The US still has a competitive advantage in the EV market but we will lose it if we continue to play politics regarding it.
EVs are the way of the future and while I am a petrol head I don't want to see the US on the back foot in one of the largest coming markets the world has ever seen.
Posted on 1/14/19 at 10:55 am to Darth_Vader
quote:It's only a "notion" because you're choosing to ignore all the facts/data out there.
My issue is the notion that they’re somehow better for the environment. Sure, maybe one day with enough innovation they may be better. But as things stand now, they not. In fact, they’re worse. Far worse.
Posted on 1/14/19 at 11:01 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
I notice my OP is getting plenty of downvotes but no intelligent counterpoints. Wonder why that is?
Well for one, concentrating power generation(in this case electricity) fueled by fossil fuels such as natural gas allows for more efficient conversion and easier to regulate environmental impacts.
In the future the strain on the grid could be lessened by people having solar panels and creating their own electricity locally.
The maintenance on an electric car is insanely low compared to a ICE.
From a non environmental perspective, our gas reserves far exceed our liquids reserves for the US.
Posted on 1/14/19 at 11:02 am to Tigeralum2008
quote:
quote:
That's because there currently isn't a heavy reliance on an electricity market for transportation. Also, countries with large deposits of lithium will become the new OPEC and will control the vital resources that make these vehicles function
I believe in the free market which means, I trust a new battery tech will be developed to address the lithium issues.
Here are some I know coming down the pipeline soon.
SODIUM-ION
Solid State
Lithium-Sulfur
Li-S batteries are lighter weight, long lasting, and charge exponentially faster. Obviously it still uses Li but the demand won't be as great. We will see them in aircraft within our lifetimes.
What countries have the large natural deposits of these?? I bet the chinese know, and have already taken over too. If it's not on their own land which if I were them I would definitely force new tech on what they naturally hold.
Posted on 1/14/19 at 11:05 am to Darth_Vader
Few if any of those pushing this idea will ever stoop to owning one; those are for the schmucks who actually think they're saving the planet by driving one (as if their decision is that pivotal 
).
Don't look for any of the Learjet Libs they adore to be trading theirs in for a blimp anytime soon, either. But keep following their orders, Dummies.
). Don't look for any of the Learjet Libs they adore to be trading theirs in for a blimp anytime soon, either. But keep following their orders, Dummies.
Posted on 1/14/19 at 11:06 am to Darth_Vader
It's not exactly a stretch to think that energy generated by a centralized plant and distributed via the grid is much more efficient than that generated by millions of individual internal combustion engines.
Posted on 1/14/19 at 11:08 am to Darth_Vader
History will not be kind to us.
Posted on 1/14/19 at 11:11 am to oleheat
The masses wont switch over until electric vehicles are cheaper than gas vehicles. I know I will once they are cheaper. The market is powered by the only green that matters.
This post was edited on 1/14/19 at 11:12 am
Posted on 1/14/19 at 11:12 am to TOSOV
quote:
What countries have the large natural deposits of these?? I bet the chinese know, and have already taken over too. If it's not on their own land which if I were them I would definitely force new tech on what they naturally hold.
Chile, China, Australia and Argentina have the largest reserves of lithium. The US has some of the largest Sodium Carbonate reserves. Sulpher reserves are found in the O&G heavy countries.
Posted on 1/14/19 at 11:14 am to TOSOV
In 20 years we'll have fusion power and graphene super-capacitor batteries and all will be well. Lithium-ion batteries are not the way of the future.
This post was edited on 1/14/19 at 3:36 pm
Posted on 1/14/19 at 11:16 am to Darth_Vader
I agree with you.
A friend got into an argument with stupid douche hipster one day. My friend told him that to generate electricity you have to burn fossil fuels. The moron kept insisting that (1) my friend was wrong; (2) he used less energy because he used less gas; (3) electricity comes from the outlet, not fossil fuels.
I guess you just can't fix stupid.
A friend got into an argument with stupid douche hipster one day. My friend told him that to generate electricity you have to burn fossil fuels. The moron kept insisting that (1) my friend was wrong; (2) he used less energy because he used less gas; (3) electricity comes from the outlet, not fossil fuels.
I guess you just can't fix stupid.
Posted on 1/14/19 at 11:19 am to Tigeralum2008
quote:
The reason I am pro-electric has nothing to do with the environment. It is simply cost. I can get 300 miles out of my electric vehcile at a cost of $1.75 whereas 300 miles on a camry would be $10.75 (roughly assuming 30 MPG and gas price of $1.75/gal). That cost of gasoline also goes up at a greater rate than electricity when the price of oil increases.
I'm sure the cost of electricity will remain static when the demand for it exponentially increases.
Posted on 1/14/19 at 11:19 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
I notice my OP is getting plenty of downvotes but no intelligent counterpoints. Wonder why that is?
Bc you immediately answered your own question.
quote:
Why do people think electric cars are somehow better for the environment?
quote:
Sure you don’t have emissions coming out of the tailpipe.
Right or wrong, that’s why people think they are better for environment. Sorry you didn’t get enough upvotes. Next time have a better question.
Posted on 1/14/19 at 11:42 am to musick
quote:
Tesla just discontinued those models and after this year the base model will be 300+ miles, they also have models that go over 600 miles
Did King Ewon say so?? This is a lie.
Posted on 1/14/19 at 11:43 am to BRbornandraised
quote:
The masses wont switch over until electric vehicles are cheaper than gas vehicles. I know I will once they are cheaper. The market is powered by the only green that matters.
It would have to be affordable, as dependable as gas, and here's the biggie- have recharging stations in enough locations to avoid getting stranded.
We've all seen the guy carrying a 5 gal gas can back to his vehicle that ran dry due to his own carelessness. Imagine running out of power- and I promise you the same people would- and no way to refuel on your own....
I'm thinking we are decades away from this becoming mainstream efficient - and that's being conservative.
Posted on 1/14/19 at 11:46 am to oleheat
quote:
It would have to be affordable, as dependable as gas, and here's the biggie- have recharging stations in enough locations to avoid getting stranded.
I think you also have to get to the point where recharging the vehicle is as quick as refilling a tank of gas.
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