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re: What Would Happen To The US Economy If Everyone Lived Modest?
Posted on 8/14/19 at 12:26 pm to OWLFAN86
Posted on 8/14/19 at 12:26 pm to OWLFAN86
quote:
you actually claimed that socialism was a form of capitalism,, or capitalism was a type of socialism earlier in this very thread,
You are a fricking idiot. It isn't THAT simple.. I am not just saying "oh socialism is a form of capitalism".. If anything, I am saying that there can be a form of socialism within capitalism. In a way in which money is redistributed through businesses.
For example. Business A depends on Business B to stay open and Business B depends on Business C to stay open as well as Business A because if Business A shuts down then its not selling what it got from Business C. That's the simplicity of it.
That's sort of how I look at retail.. But on a much larger scale. A retail store sells a bunch of products that are in demand. It's not making anything that you can only get there.. And if some of the top name brands that are in high demand decide they do not want that retail store to sell their products anymore, then that retail store will suffer.
Look at that on a much larger scale.
And there are a lot of products that are more of a want than a need so our economy depends on people making a decision to buy these products instead of putting that money away to save. So the decision to buy something they want instead of saving is sort of redistributing money. Does this not make sense?
2
Posted on 8/14/19 at 12:28 pm to dukke v
quote:
You would have never made it back in the 70’s and 80’s....
Oh no, i actually did.. well, in a way; my first car was a ‘78 Pontiac in the late 80s.. then i had an ‘81 VW in the early 90s.. i’m very familiar with driving pieces of ****, without working A/C and praying that your car will start in the morning.. i just never want to go back there, which is why i like slightly newer cars, but with extended warranties and a few more creature comforts.
Posted on 8/14/19 at 12:30 pm to OweO
quote:
there can be a form of socialism within capitalism. In a way in which money is redistributed through businesses.
You need remedial economics.
Posted on 8/14/19 at 12:37 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
It would be like the 1960s, with better technology
I wasnt around, it looked like it had clean streets though. Even the hippies picked up after themselves and took the nature shite actually seriously.
Music was important, it's own language. People still cared and people still believed.
Posted on 8/14/19 at 12:40 pm to SEClint
quote:
I wasnt around, it looked like it had clean streets though. Even the hippies picked up after themselves and took the nature shite actually seriously.
Music was important, it's own language. People still cared and people still believed.
Yep, totally different environment. People were absolutely more social. But then too, people generally lived in the same house in the same neighborhood for long stretches of time.
I greatly prefer a simplified lifestyle myself. Minimal, simple, not a big fan of "luxury" though todays luxury is quite cheap.
Posted on 8/14/19 at 12:41 pm to OweO
quote:
You are a fricking idiot. It isn't THAT simple.. I am not just saying "oh socialism is a form of capitalism".. If anything, I am saying that there can be a form of socialism within capitalism. In a way in which money is redistributed through businesses.
For example. Business A depends on Business B to stay open and Business B depends on Business C to stay open as well as Business A because if Business A shuts down then its not selling what it got from Business C. That's the simplicity of it.
That's sort of how I look at retail.. But on a much larger scale. A retail store sells a bunch of products that are in demand. It's not making anything that you can only get there.. And if some of the top name brands that are in high demand decide they do not want that retail store to sell their products anymore, then that retail store will suffer.
Look at that on a much larger scale.
And there are a lot of products that are more of a want than a need so our economy depends on people making a decision to buy these products instead of putting that money away to save. So the decision to buy something they want instead of saving is sort of redistributing money. Does this not make sense?
Quoted in case you try to edit the stupidity that is this post.
Posted on 8/14/19 at 12:45 pm to tgrbaitn08
[img]Shut up stupid
Everything these days aren’t made to last.
That includes vehicles
Once Chinese Steele entered the manufacturing industry everything got cheap and cheap.
Nothing is built to last like it used to.[/img]
You simply don't know cars.
The reality in most sectors you can buy consumer products built much better than in the past. The issue is most people will not pay for quality now. For example, I hear all the time how crappy tools are today. I ask what specific tool and suggest a quality version of it, but almost always get met with "but that costs too much". Yes, quality costs and people buying cheap tools has shrunk the market. Unless you are buying something that involves Moore's law it is almost a certainty you can find a very high quality product. If you choose to live the "Made in China" life you may well find products fit for purpose but they will be far from the quality of goods you could have bought.
Everything these days aren’t made to last.
That includes vehicles
Once Chinese Steele entered the manufacturing industry everything got cheap and cheap.
Nothing is built to last like it used to.[/img]
You simply don't know cars.
The reality in most sectors you can buy consumer products built much better than in the past. The issue is most people will not pay for quality now. For example, I hear all the time how crappy tools are today. I ask what specific tool and suggest a quality version of it, but almost always get met with "but that costs too much". Yes, quality costs and people buying cheap tools has shrunk the market. Unless you are buying something that involves Moore's law it is almost a certainty you can find a very high quality product. If you choose to live the "Made in China" life you may well find products fit for purpose but they will be far from the quality of goods you could have bought.
Posted on 8/14/19 at 12:47 pm to Overbrook
quote:
If You mean if people stop doing things like taking loans for consumption purposes, it would hit hard. It’s one of those double edged swords: people are much better off saving, but the economy needs then to borrow and spend. The auto industry depends on people taking consumption loans.
I said hit hard – it is hard for probably five years or so, until things adapted. That would be a long and tough five years.
This is the direction I am going.
What if people start saving for things they want instead of taking out loans?
A big part of our economy depends on people spending money.
So would everyone say what is good for the economy isn't what is in the best interest of the people? (of course it depends on what your money is invested in, but I am speaking "in general").
Posted on 8/14/19 at 12:48 pm to Sweltering Chill
quote:
Oh no, i actually did.. well, in a way; my first car was a ‘78 Pontiac in the late 80s
Ok...My bad... Todays cars are made much better even without all the tech stuff... they will run for 300,000 miles IF taken care of... But people today are always looking for NEW shite and get tired of what they have way to soon.... IMO.
Posted on 8/14/19 at 12:51 pm to RogerTheShrubber
Just putting this in here because I feel like the thread needs it.
Posted on 8/14/19 at 12:53 pm to RogerTheShrubber
It's almost hard to imagine a world where people do not have an electronic device for communication.
Its fond to remember when people were actually forced to communicate. To get ahold of a friend sometimes you had to seek them out, drive to their home..these interactions may seem trivial but were probably close to the foundation bricks in building a monument of friendship.
We send more text communication than ever, it's so generic and emotionless. At least with a letter you get unique handwriting and at times a scent of the person, it's as far from generic font text as possible.
Over the past few decades people have been raised by more machines than ever, electronics..a lack of human element and emotional support in early development. Learned the need to long for likes from a faceless online army, digital acceptance..its really not organic or natural.
Its fond to remember when people were actually forced to communicate. To get ahold of a friend sometimes you had to seek them out, drive to their home..these interactions may seem trivial but were probably close to the foundation bricks in building a monument of friendship.
We send more text communication than ever, it's so generic and emotionless. At least with a letter you get unique handwriting and at times a scent of the person, it's as far from generic font text as possible.
Over the past few decades people have been raised by more machines than ever, electronics..a lack of human element and emotional support in early development. Learned the need to long for likes from a faceless online army, digital acceptance..its really not organic or natural.
Posted on 8/14/19 at 12:57 pm to SEClint
quote:
Over the past few decades people have been raised by more machines than ever, electronics..a lack of human element and emotional support in early development. Learned the need to long for likes from a faceless online army, digital acceptance..its really not organic or natural.
Absolutely agree. And I've fallen into the trap myself, though I still really enjoy socializing.
Though I've cut my time down to just here and some photo stuff on Facebook.
I've gotten past the "need something new every few year" phase. I prefer to buy something decently crafted and keep it for a long time myself.
Consumerism is a real issue. The problem is we've built the bubble and its not too big to pop.
Posted on 8/14/19 at 12:57 pm to LSUBoo
quote:
There would be a dip at first, but eventually it would thrive.
exactly, it would be painful for awhile but it would be as strong as ever in the long run.
Posted on 8/14/19 at 1:10 pm to Sweltering Chill
quote:
In re to cars, i’m not sure if they’re built to last as long as the cars of the 50s or 60s
Those cars were legit crap and I love cars from that era.
Literally nothing lasted on those cars; engines, transmissions, switchgear, rubber components.
They were also unsafe AF and build quality was spotty at best. (Avoid Monday or Friday cars)
Posted on 8/14/19 at 1:10 pm to Ponchy Tiger
I'm about to be finished with End the Fed by Ron Paul right now. Interesting read pertaining to this thread
This post was edited on 8/14/19 at 1:15 pm
Posted on 8/14/19 at 1:12 pm to VABuckeye
quote:
Quoted in case you try to edit the stupidity that is this post.
Agree, it is beyond comprehension how incorrect all of that is.
Posted on 8/14/19 at 1:15 pm to RogerTheShrubber
It's the population, world really isnt built for 8 billion. Perhaps instead or terraforming into mars, they could start with Siberia or Greenland.
I'm for abortion and the death penalty, cutting corners at all costs.
This is kinda alarming when you really think about it. Eventually it's all going to end. It has to somehow..soon.
I'm for abortion and the death penalty, cutting corners at all costs.
This is kinda alarming when you really think about it. Eventually it's all going to end. It has to somehow..soon.
Posted on 8/14/19 at 1:20 pm to Ponchy Tiger
quote:quote:
There would be a dip at first, but eventually it would thrive.
exactly, it would be painful for awhile but it would be as strong as ever in the long run.
Right, how big of a dip depends on how sudden the shift, but the US would be much better off if people weren't so reliant on consumer debt.
Sure, the payday loan places would suffer, but frick them anyway.
Posted on 8/14/19 at 1:21 pm to teke184
quote:
By contrast, the "Cash For Clunkers" event under Obama not only didn't really create any additional sales of new cars (it only moved already planned sales forward a few months), it ended up killing the used car market and hurt sales in aftermarket parts that would have been used to maintain those cars.
I know because it was under Obama it is considered bad and there is nothing anyone can say to convince people on here otherwise, but the "Cash for Clunkers" thing was more about getting people to trade in their vehicles to get fuel efficient vehicles.
In come areas, it encouraged people to get rid of their vehicle earlier than they planned which meant there were more quality used vehicles.
And if anyone benefits from that, its the car dealerships. They sell you a vehicle, then buy your used vehicle, which they turn around and sell for a profit. People were able to get better quality used vehicles, which they traded in their vehicle in to buy..
Posted on 8/14/19 at 1:22 pm to SEClint
You're going to have people tell you that you can fit the world's population into Texas or something. That isn't the point. The point is feeding 7 billion plus, plus running things like international commerce and the interstate highway system when fossil fuels are exorbitantly expensive or scarce. Not possible. We are not just going to transition to "something else." But, I'm in the doomer/Malthusian camp on this.
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