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What was the feeling of helping Vietnam at the time at the start of the war?
Posted on 8/3/26 at 8:01 pm
Posted on 8/3/26 at 8:01 pm
Watching Ken burn's documentary and one thing that stood out to me was it seems like a majority of the politicians and population wanted us to send troops and help the south Vietnamese. I guess I don't get why we were so worried that a small country in Asia was about to be over run by communists when the area over there was surrounded by communists. Just such an unnecessary amount of money and American lives from my Monday morning qb view
Posted on 8/3/26 at 8:05 pm to Civildawg
I guess I don't get why we were so worried that a small country in Asia was about to be over run by communists when the area over there was surrounded by communists.
— Sounds like you didn’t have much of a history teacher in HS. History books are helpful.
There was this thing called the Truman Doctrine of Containment. We pledged to fight the spread of communism anywhere. It worked in S Korea and Western Europe. We figured it would work in Vietnam.
— Sounds like you didn’t have much of a history teacher in HS. History books are helpful.
There was this thing called the Truman Doctrine of Containment. We pledged to fight the spread of communism anywhere. It worked in S Korea and Western Europe. We figured it would work in Vietnam.
Posted on 8/3/26 at 8:07 pm to Civildawg
quote:
What was the feeling of helping Vietnam at the time at the start of the war?
"Where or what the hell is that" was probably the first response of many people.
Posted on 8/3/26 at 8:13 pm to Civildawg
I’m betting Ken Burn’s documentary didn’t mention the fact the origins of the anti-Vietnam War movement was from leftist and communist groups, all under KGB influence, operating in American universities.
Posted on 8/3/26 at 8:21 pm to Civildawg
And now we’re all great allies with communist Vietnam…
Posted on 8/3/26 at 8:25 pm to Civildawg
Richard Nixon, then Presidential candidate, worked back channels and threw wrench in peace talks as an active war was helpful to his campaign. He then stifled Paris Peace talks as an active war was believed to help him in his quest for 2nd term.
Meanwhile, the highest levels of U.S. govt, via the Pentagon Papers (McNamara endorsed) knew the war was not winnable.
One of my sickest stomachs learning that all those people died for nothing…but for Nixon’s power quests. L I used to think the U.S. wore the white cowboy hat until this little nugget of history. Naïveté died fast death.
Not sure who was the most dangerous enemy during that war period.
Meanwhile, the highest levels of U.S. govt, via the Pentagon Papers (McNamara endorsed) knew the war was not winnable.
One of my sickest stomachs learning that all those people died for nothing…but for Nixon’s power quests. L I used to think the U.S. wore the white cowboy hat until this little nugget of history. Naïveté died fast death.
Not sure who was the most dangerous enemy during that war period.
This post was edited on 8/3/26 at 8:33 pm
Posted on 8/3/26 at 8:28 pm to Civildawg
Neither JFK nor LBJ wanted to be the president who "lost" Vietnam, fearing it would trigger political suicide at home and project weakness to the Soviets globally. The real threat was the western political left winged apparatus that framed the Vietnam War not merely as a localized Cold War conflict, but as an unjust, imperialist intervention against a sovereign nation seeking self-determination, which was the real threat on the home front.
Posted on 8/3/26 at 8:34 pm to Breauxsif
Which is crazy in my mind but I wasn't alive at the time. What I mean is that why would the average person in the US care if a small Asian country turned communist? Doesn't seem like people in Britain, France, Germany, or any other country cared.
Posted on 8/3/26 at 8:40 pm to cypresstiger
quote:
It worked in S Korea
I honestly don't think you can claim a war that paused in a stalemate state as a win.
Posted on 8/3/26 at 8:41 pm to Civildawg
quote:You might want to further educate yourself on the French and Vietnam.
Doesn't seem like people in Britain, France, Germany, or any other country cared.
(ie: very long story)
Posted on 8/3/26 at 8:42 pm to Civildawg
quote:
US care if a small Asian country turned communist?
Because it was never just about Vietnam. It was about Africa, Korea, Europe, Cuba, Central & South America, etc. We were fighting the creep of commies all over the world, and Vietnam just provided the perfect place to test MiGs, SA-2s, etc. against the US to prove that they worked.
Posted on 8/3/26 at 8:42 pm to Landmass
quote:
I honestly don't think you can claim a war that paused in a stalemate state as a win.
Since it has prevented the Kim family from taking over South Korea and making it as depraved and desolate as North Korea, I'd bet the South Koreans would disagree with you.
This post was edited on 8/3/26 at 8:43 pm
Posted on 8/3/26 at 8:45 pm to SpotCheckBilly
quote:
I'd bet the South Koreans would disagree with you
They have a pro American parade/demonstration in front of Seoul's city hall, every weekend.
Posted on 8/3/26 at 8:47 pm to Civildawg
quote:
Which is crazy in my mind but I wasn't alive at the time. What I mean is that why would the average person in the US care if a small Asian country turned communist? Doesn't seem like people in Britain, France, Germany, or any other country cared.
France was annihilated at Dien Bien Phu, which caused them to withdraw from Vietnam.
Posted on 8/3/26 at 8:59 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
I’m betting Ken Burn’s documentary didn’t mention the fact the origins of the anti-Vietnam War movement was from leftist and communist groups, all under KGB influence, operating in American universities.
None of that got any traction until the middle class turned against the war, and that wasn't from leftist indoctrination, it was from seeing their kids come home in body bags.
My grandparents were the furthest thing from leftists but they were very happy when my uncle failed his induction physical due to a gastric ulcer.
Posted on 8/3/26 at 9:03 pm to Civildawg
The Tet Offensive, the turning point of the war, was in fact a military failure for NV
Giap & other NV generals were flabbergasted to see the US & European Media portray it as a success
Giap & other NV generals were flabbergasted to see the US & European Media portray it as a success
Posted on 8/3/26 at 9:05 pm to Civildawg
Put yourself in the context of the time. Between 1945 and 1959:
1. The Iron Curtain fell across Eastern Europe. In every case, the NKVD or its successor KGB aided communists in being "elected" via assassinations, imprisonments, and just plain taking charge of counting the votes.
2. China, N Korea, Cuba, N Vietnam, and several other nations have fallen to communism. The Norks and then the Chinese attempted to forcibly add S Korea to the tally. Japan, Germany, and many other countries had very active communist parties.
3. Greece and Italy nearly fell to majority communist "elected" governments, again with the help of the KGB. Many historians think the presence of American carrier battle groups in the major harbors of both countries during the critical elections are all that saved them from far bolder KGB and insurgent actions.
The Domino theory was real, and there were legitimate concerns that we needed to take a stand. Nevertheless, Ike told JFK that Vietnam was the wrong place and time. Even so, had we let the military off the leash and stopped micromanagement of the war from DC, it would have ended very differently. Heck, if we had just not axed S Vietnam's military aid after we pulled out (D Congress broke our word there) S Vietnam, who was giving a pretty good account of itself, might have survived.
1. The Iron Curtain fell across Eastern Europe. In every case, the NKVD or its successor KGB aided communists in being "elected" via assassinations, imprisonments, and just plain taking charge of counting the votes.
2. China, N Korea, Cuba, N Vietnam, and several other nations have fallen to communism. The Norks and then the Chinese attempted to forcibly add S Korea to the tally. Japan, Germany, and many other countries had very active communist parties.
3. Greece and Italy nearly fell to majority communist "elected" governments, again with the help of the KGB. Many historians think the presence of American carrier battle groups in the major harbors of both countries during the critical elections are all that saved them from far bolder KGB and insurgent actions.
The Domino theory was real, and there were legitimate concerns that we needed to take a stand. Nevertheless, Ike told JFK that Vietnam was the wrong place and time. Even so, had we let the military off the leash and stopped micromanagement of the war from DC, it would have ended very differently. Heck, if we had just not axed S Vietnam's military aid after we pulled out (D Congress broke our word there) S Vietnam, who was giving a pretty good account of itself, might have survived.
This post was edited on 8/3/26 at 9:13 pm
Posted on 8/3/26 at 9:08 pm to TigerHornII
quote:
if we had just not axed S Vietnam's military aid after we pulled out
This 100%. The govt of S Vietnam was corrupt AF, but when our support ended up with my dad helping push Hueys off of carriers, it wasn't trigger pullers that farked that up.
Posted on 8/3/26 at 9:09 pm to Everyday Is Saturday
quote:
Richard Nixon, then Presidential candidate, worked back channels and threw wrench in peace talks as an active war was helpful to his campaign. He then stifled Paris Peace talks as an active war was believed to help him in his quest for 2nd term.
Meanwhile, the highest levels of U.S. govt, via the Pentagon Papers (McNamara endorsed) knew the war was not winnable.
One of my sickest stomachs learning that all those people died for nothing…but for Nixon’s power quests. L I used to think the U.S. wore the white cowboy hat until this little nugget of history. Naïveté died fast death.
Not sure who was the most dangerous enemy during that war period.
Incredibly propaganda-driven take. Out of touch with reality of the time. McNamara and LBJ's blind faith in him was one of the most singular reasons that the war was "unwinable".
This post was edited on 8/3/26 at 9:14 pm
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