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re: What was the feeling of helping Vietnam at the time at the start of the war?
Posted on 8/3/26 at 9:09 pm to Civildawg
Posted on 8/3/26 at 9:09 pm to Civildawg
Our politicians lied to get us involved in that war then never let our troops win the war. We made our troops bleed and die with one hand behind their backs. It was a mistake to get involved in a war we had no plans to win.
Posted on 8/3/26 at 9:11 pm to Civildawg
quote:
Doesn't seem like people in Britain, France, Germany, or any other country cared.
We first got involved in Vietnam because France was losing their colony and cried to us that if we didn’t help them there, they would have to pull out of West Germany. We didn’t want to lose any ground to the Soviets in Germany and also didn’t want anymore Asian countries to fall to communism. AKA The Domino Effect.
Posted on 8/3/26 at 9:11 pm to Landmass
Look at a nighttime satellite photo of S vs N Korea today. N Korea was originally the more industrialized portion of the country.
Scoreboard.
Scoreboard.
Posted on 8/3/26 at 9:11 pm to LemmyLives
Or played by rediculous stupid ROE.
"We" (the us government) did not REALLY want to win in nam. It would have meant direct conflict with China, and we weren't willing to do that. There was no clear objective or finish line to be crossed, so we were doomed to fail from the start.
And, here we are.
If you go to war, go to war to win. See: nam, iraq, afghanistan
"We" (the us government) did not REALLY want to win in nam. It would have meant direct conflict with China, and we weren't willing to do that. There was no clear objective or finish line to be crossed, so we were doomed to fail from the start.
And, here we are.
If you go to war, go to war to win. See: nam, iraq, afghanistan
Posted on 8/3/26 at 9:12 pm to Landmass
quote:
I honestly don't think you can claim a war that paused in a stalemate state as a win.
It was a huge win to not give the entire Korean Peninsula to a ruthless family of dictators. I’m sure South Koreans call it a win considering they are one of the world’s most prosperous countries. They went from a poor agricultural economy to a booming technological powerhouse.
Posted on 8/3/26 at 9:18 pm to Sofaking2
The two wars are not comparable. We won in Korea. We kicked that can many decades into the future which is as good as you can do.
The news and politics are what "lost" Vietnam for us. The american war machine could have "won" Korea-style if we had truly wanted to, without nukes.
The news and politics are what "lost" Vietnam for us. The american war machine could have "won" Korea-style if we had truly wanted to, without nukes.
Posted on 8/3/26 at 9:19 pm to Civildawg
It is tragic that we inherited the French position left over from their colonial rule. The country was 80% Buddhist and 20% French Catholic.
Posted on 8/3/26 at 9:21 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:
Or played by rediculous stupid ROE.
Having POTUS approve individual bombing runs was deplorable.
Only losers fight "fair", winners fight to win.
Posted on 8/3/26 at 9:22 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
I agree with that from what I've been researching. Also was surprised at what seems to be how bad our guns were compared to the VC. How did with we make the POS that was the M-16?
Posted on 8/3/26 at 9:24 pm to TigerHornII
quote:
Incredibly propaganda-driven take. Out of touch with reality of the time. McNamara and LBJ's blind faith in him was one of the most singular reasons that the war was "unwinable".
Tell me more about Nixon’s actions re impeding peace talks (twice) for his own personal gain, prolonging war that we were not winning.
How many unfortunate sons did Nixon / Kissinger create?
If you were the point man in the jungle during these prolonged seasons of the war, what is / would be your view of Nixon / Kissinger?
This post was edited on 8/3/26 at 9:42 pm
Posted on 8/3/26 at 9:28 pm to Civildawg
We cared. We cared a lot. We believed in the domino theory of non-communist nations falling, one after another to communism.
Posted on 8/3/26 at 9:29 pm to Civildawg
quote:
how bad our guns were compared to the VC. How did with we make the POS that was the M-16?
A vastly overblown issue. The vc were sending men in unarmed to be supplied via battlefield pickup. The M16 even at its worst was a far better rifle than the vc had, and they didnt even all have rifles. Much less air support, artillery, naval power etc.
The vc had hard men, cover, and time. Thats what they "beat" the USA with.
The ROE and the media "lost" that war.
Posted on 8/3/26 at 9:30 pm to TigerHornII
Ho Chi Minh worked with the OSS during WWII against the Japanese and expected postwar help in achieving independence. He was a communist but Vietnam could have potentially been a nonaligned state like Yugoslavia. The US deemed propping up France more important and that meant supporting France's effort to hang on to its colonies. Maybe it was the right call in the big picture, but it was a fearful cost.
Posted on 8/3/26 at 9:35 pm to Civildawg
Domino theory. The west used containment to prevent growing Soviet influence.
Posted on 8/3/26 at 9:36 pm to Civildawg
quote:because the French didn’t want to lose their cash cow
I guess I don't get why we were so worried that a small country in Asia was about to be over run by communists when the area over there was surrounded by communists. Just such an unnecessary amount of money and American lives from my Monday morning qb view
Posted on 8/3/26 at 9:47 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:
The M16 even at its worst was a far better rifle than the vc had
The M14 was a great rifle, but would have sucked in Vietnam. The pig sucks to carry anywhere.
quote:
The ROE and the media "lost" that war
Just like how ISIS is JV.
Posted on 8/3/26 at 11:30 pm to cypresstiger
quote:
We pledged to fight the spread of communism anywhere
Correct, there was pretty widespread support for any effort to halt the spread of communism, which sounds kind of silly now. Only now the battle cry is to fight terrorism instead of communism.
Posted on 8/4/26 at 1:44 am to cypresstiger
quote:Last week I went down the rabbit hole on the effects of FDR's decision to replace Henry Wallace in 1944. Dewey would've become president in 1948. Those two in the 1945-52/56 could have saved a lot of American lives by not fighting wars in SE Asia. It's too dang late to look at everything but consider a world where McArthur isn't fired. Where we kept our financial and population bounty. Where a non-Kennedy D wins and serves 1956-64. Etc. Etc.
There was this thing called the Truman Doctrine of Containment.
However as things played out, Truman dropped the ball multiple times by not propping up French Indochina rule. He also completely screwed up Korea by not signaling an end to hostilities before the Chinese crossed over. The frickups area mind boggling. I hate to say it but in hindsight, Willie might have been the best Post-WW2 Democrat to serve as President.
Posted on 8/4/26 at 2:06 am to Sofaking2
quote:
Our politicians lied to get us involved in that war then never let our troops win the war. We made our troops bleed and die with one hand behind their backs. It was a mistake to get involved in a war we had no plans to win.
To "win" Vietnam, we would have had to invade and occupy nearly all of it, north and south. Vietnam is about the size of New Mexico, nearly as mountainous, and covered in jungle. It has borders on three sides conducive to infiltration.
We didn't have the resources to "win" in Vietnam, even on a total war footing with mass mobilization . We should never have been there.
What we should have done is leveraged Vietnam's natural mistrust of China to our advantage. We have friendly relations with Vietnam now. Imagine if we hadn't spent a decade bombing the shite out of them.
This post was edited on 8/4/26 at 2:08 am
Posted on 8/4/26 at 6:53 am to Civildawg
Vietnam became the first “televised war.” The national media was showing combat footage each evening, inserting their own opinions into the matter, and was giving a weekly body count. That turned a lot of Americans off on the war.
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