re: Visited the Angola Rodeo and Craft fair and was amazed what I saw. Can good come from bad?

It just has me thinking what a screwed up cycle it all is, what’s the root cause, and how it could be improved.

Look at this.


Turn of the century, you’ve got WW1. Broken men return home, many shellshocked and disillusioned. End of the West, Immigration waves, Klan resurgence, temperance movement, women’s suffrage... murder rate pretty high
On the tails of that you have prohibition. The government creating criminals out of mostly law abiding citizens, and in turn making a violent black market arise.

Murder rate spikes. Turf wars, the Great Depresion, civil unrest, young men without purpose, angry and hungry.

Then you have WW2.
All of a sudden you have the draft. Pulling young men en masse out of the Society and throwing them into the hellish killing fields where violence and state sanctioned murder, in a sense, was not only tolerated but lauded.

A generation that got their fill of death and violence overseas. A lot of violent men died, and those that came home were changed by that. The ancient thirst for battle slaked... men who just wanted to rebuild and raise families.

Slight spike, then the Korean War, another draft, another siphoning of restless young men off to kill...returning home and wanting to turn their swords to plowshares and raise families in peace.

Then the dip continues to it’s lowest point until 1960...

What happens in the 60s?

LBJ’s damnable Great Society. The sexual revolution.
The government replacing the father as the provider and offering the teat of government dependence under the guise of helping.


Vietnam taking men away once more but the social unrest at home growing, and when they returned it was a different world. Gone were the old Morals. Do what feels good.

Divorce rates increasing, don’t need daddy anymore the gov’ts gonna take care of them.
Young men and women raised without the guidance and structure of the father. Listless, restless young men, and the ancient violence returns (also there is a theory that the widespread use of lead paint contributed to this behaviour)

Civil unrest, gas crises, living in the shadow of the Cold War. Violent times requires being tough on crime, right?

Add in the war on drugs. Bam

Prohibition all over. Turf wars, gangs, making criminals of people at exponential rates. Even more fathers taken out of the home, even less fathers to give that structure.

Chaos. Madness. Death.

Incarceration en masse caused a drop again, sure. Taking violent elements out of society, but not rehabilitating them or filling the void they left.

Cold War over and then we see the precipitous fall, (also we stopped using lead paint)

Is it because we locked up so many? Changing in Society? And are the men who were locked away rehabilitated now?




shite...maybe it’s video games and easily accessible porn. Gives them something to quench the violent urges

Well you can thank Cadillac Jack Favor

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Perhaps we need reform, a way to cull those with good still in them from the herd of the wretched and give them a chance to repair their brokenness and become a light in the world of darkness. Instead of throwing them into the dark to be forgotten and choke out any good that might be left.

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I hear you, and it would be the Christian thing to do, but what if the talented boat builder had murdered one of your loved ones. Would it still be possible for you to see the good in them and see them released? I didn’t know any of the folks involved in that Lake Charles bank robbery and associated murders so many years ago, but it still bothers me that Wilbert Rideau went from the death penalty to walking free on the streets because he learned to be a decent writer in prison. I believe he admitted his guilt, so not a wrongful conviction.

Nvm.

Sorry I tried to complement you.

Angola inmates publish a magazine called the Angolite. It is well done with good information for lawyers.

Angola was a dangerous shithole until Burl Cain took over. His programs, many religious in nature, changed the character of the prison.

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See...i’ve Got this warped sense of justice. Something like that...where you’ve got indisputable evidence, the cruel execution of an innocent man defending his property, then let him dance a jig at the end of the rope before the echo of the gavel ends. Doesn’t matter if he makes art that would put Rembrandt to shame. Life for a life. Don’t lock him away and make the taxpayers responsible for his room and board. Snuff out his candle even if It might shine some light eventually.

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You like to speak in poetic terms, but you contradict yourself a lot.

So we should start hanging guilty criminals immediately? Are you aware of project innocence? Your stance would probably have a good amount of innocent people killed.

In addition, by your standards most of the people you bought those wares from would probably be hanging from the end of a rope.

The reality is the men in Angola got a pretty good deal compared to what their victims got. I’m sure their victims wouldn’t mind switching positions with them instead of dying violently or being raped.

I think every piece of art you buy there should come with a card that tells the story of why the person was locked up. In detail. Then maybe you would have a different perspective.

You are using the meme that our criminal justice system is broken and trying to tie that into Angola. Except Angola is a terrible example. That place is full of rapists and murderers. Not pot dealers

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So we should start hanging guilty criminals immediately? Are you aware of project innocence? Your stance would probably have a good amount of innocent people killed. In addition, by your standards most of the people you bought those wares from would probably be hanging from the end of a rope.

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Probably wouldn’t be having this dilemma then.

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The reality is the men in Angola got a pretty good deal compared to what their victims got. I’m sure their victims wouldn’t mind switching positions with them instead of dying violently or being raped. I think every piece of art you buy there should come with a card that tells the story of why the person was locked up. In detail. Then maybe you would have a different perspective.

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Excellent point. Events like this kind of soften the fact of why they were there in the first place. These weren’t shoplifters or people that cheated on their taxes.

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You are using the meme that our criminal justice system is broken and trying to tie that into Angola. Except Angola is a terrible example. That place is full of rapists and murderers. Not pot dealers

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Good snap back to reality. I guess it was kind of unsettling to think I was walking around interacting pleasantly with rapers and killers. So I humanized them to assuage my moral quandary

And you are right we did have times when murderers were much more likely to go free. As you like to say, “the men who built this country”. Which is a ridiculous statement, but I’ll move on.

We live in the safest time in history BECAUSE we lock these people up. It’s easy to forget when you live in such a coddled society.

Again, we aren’t talking about non violent crimes. Angola for the most part is violent criminals. Some of them are just really old and you can’t see them as such. So if your argument is criminal justice reform, and releasing pot dealers or other non violent criminals, you need to use a better example than Angola.

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Good snap back to reality. I guess it was kind of unsettling to think I was walking around interacting pleasantly with rapers and killers. So I humanized them to assuage my moral quandary

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I don’t blame you for feeling sympathetic. It’s exactly why you are normal and free and they are behind bars practicing woodwork.

You have to remember that is their one day to put on their show and get your sympathy.

Now don’t get me wrong, there may be some that are 100% rehabilitated. But until you have a way to know that with 100% certainty. I don’t want you rolling the dice letting that killer out.

But I do agree with your general premise that maybe these people could contribute to society. I just think they should do it on the chain gang.