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Started By
Message
re: Vietnam. Was Hugh Thompson Jr a hero or traitor?
Posted on 12/24/17 at 11:54 am to feverish
Posted on 12/24/17 at 11:54 am to feverish
IMO, we have devalued to the point of stupidity the terms "hero" and "traitor". When it comes to Hugh Thompson I say he was a man who exhibited extraordinary moral courage at exactly the right time.
1
Posted on 12/24/17 at 11:55 am to White Roach
quote:
Lyndon Johnson and Robert McNamara are the people you want to talk to. Those frickers lied to Congress and the public. They ignored the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Johnson was much more concerned with winning the '64 election and passing his Great Society legislation in '65, than making an informed decision on Vietnam.
And Nixon too, who secretly convinced the South Vietnamese to not take part in peace talks in Paris BEFORE he took office, thereby undermining the peace deal that Johnson was working so hard on in 1968. Nixon told Thieu to "hold out for a better deal," and the "better deal" was essentially hanging the South Vietnamese out to dry with Kissinger and Nixon's shitty deal that allowed North Vietnamese troops to remain in place in South Vietnam. Nixon basically extended the war in Vietnam for another four years so he could guarantee his re-election in 1972. The result of this cynical move by Nixon was about 27,000 more American deaths in Vietnam and about a million more Southeast Asians, including the devastation of Cambodia during the reign of the Khmer Rouge which resulted from Kissinger and Nixon's secret invasion and bombing of that country, de-stabilizing it.
Nixon should definitely have been brought up on treason charges for how he fricked up the peace talks of 1968 by interfering with a sitting President's foreign policy.
Posted on 12/24/17 at 11:59 am to High C
quote:
More commonly referred to as slaying.
No, not by informed historians and eyewitnesses who were there. This was definitely a massacre. Over 500 Vietnamese civilians, mostly women, children and old men died.
This post was edited on 12/24/17 at 11:59 am
Posted on 12/24/17 at 12:00 pm to CajunSoldier225
quote:
I’m not arguing that the murder of innocent civilians is right. Anyone who believes that it is is certifiably insane.
Didn’t mean to seem like I was baiting you. Sorry if I came across that way. This is a pretty deep and touchy subject for Christmas Eve tbh.
Look, I'm not so naive that I don't understand how a My Lai could happen:
You've got a bunch of young men temporarily flung into a strange and bizarre reality with a variety of fricked up "rules". They're getting dinked and dunked by an enemy who won't come out and "fight fair". Frustration, and anxiety, builds over your 12 months in country (or 13 months for Marines). They see a lot of terrible things happen and get desensitized to death and destruction. They get focused on getting home alive, preferably in one piece. Ambiguous orders get passed down and the next thing you know, you're shooting a mother and child in a ditch. The SGT/LT/CPT said to, so what the frick ... I'm just following orders.
That's how it happens, but that doesn't make it right. There were probably plenty of soldiers who didn't shoot and just "looked the other way" at My Lai. Hugh Thompson actually tried to stop it.
Posted on 12/24/17 at 12:01 pm to SportsGuyNOLA
quote:
I really feel sorry for people who knew little or nothing about Vietnam war history and watched that horrible slanted Ken Burns garbage
If you truly believe this, it's YOU who needs to do some serious reading up on the Vietnam War, because you are very ill-informed about it.
Posted on 12/24/17 at 12:05 pm to boosiebadazz
quote:
Pretty sure Calley was at least court-martialed and then had his sentence commuted
This is correct. He was convicted in a court-martial of killing 22 Vietnamese civilians.
I think Capt. Ernest Medina should have also been sentenced to prison for his role. And more higher-ups should have been held accountable too.
Posted on 12/24/17 at 12:05 pm to TigersFan64
While not CNN-level propaganda, there’s no doubt the series had a liberal slant. Still very well done and informative. But don’t think it was a straight down the line objective presentation.
Posted on 12/24/17 at 12:08 pm to TBoy
quote:
Trump said it didn’t happen.
Had Trump had the balls to actually go to Vietnam, instead of paying some doctor to certify that he had "bone spurs" (which mysteriously went away later), he very well could have been one of the participants in the massacre, with his sociopathic tendencies.
Posted on 12/24/17 at 12:09 pm to Kafka
Right because draft dodgers are pieces of shite, unless they are GOP.
Posted on 12/24/17 at 12:11 pm to White Roach
quote:
, but he was made scapegoat by Big Army for the whole affair
More higher-ups definitely should have been held accountable for the massacre, but to say Calley was "just a scapegoat" is an oversimplification. He personally murdered Vietnamese civilians at My Lai, including, according to eyewitnesses who were there, a very young child.
Posted on 12/24/17 at 12:14 pm to SoFla Tideroller
quote:
While not CNN-level propaganda, there’s no doubt the series had a liberal slant.
So says the rightwing watchers of the "unbiased" Fox News and listeners of Rush Limbaugh.
Posted on 12/24/17 at 12:17 pm to Napoleon
quote:
Right because draft dodgers are pieces of shite, unless they are GOP.
The big difference in the GOP'ers who dodged the Vietnam-era draft and the Democratic ones is that the GOP draft dodgers like Cheney, G.W. Bush, Newt Gingrich, Rush Limbaugh, etc. generally supported the war, while draft dodgers like B. Clinton at least OPPOSED the war while dodging it.
Posted on 12/24/17 at 12:20 pm to feverish
Yes. He tried to keep American soldiers from killing the enemy
Posted on 12/24/17 at 12:23 pm to Napoleon
Yalls hero Obama wasn't a draft dodger! He fought for al quaeda!
Posted on 12/24/17 at 12:29 pm to cattus
quote:
I prefer Cronkite's.
What doc is that? I'll check it out.
Posted on 12/24/17 at 12:33 pm to AUCE05
quote:
Anyone who willing went to Nam
Vietnam is a very sad story. You're talking about a generation that idolized military service because their fathers served in WWII defeating Hitler and Japan. Then these poor souls were sent to a political shite story otherwise known as Vietnam. I'm talking about how my dad looked at it anyway as a West Point grad. Entirely different story for those who were drafted and went unwillingly.
frick the hippies who came along later after it was widely accepted as a huge mistake.
Posted on 12/24/17 at 12:36 pm to feverish
I never heard of him, but lemme read his wiki page real quick so I can give an expert opinion. Brb
Posted on 12/24/17 at 12:46 pm to feverish
Met him personally at Fort Sam Houston. Had him speak at one of our officer class graduations. An incredible hero.
Posted on 12/24/17 at 12:47 pm to feverish
quote:Calley was convicted. His sentence was commuted by President Nixon.
No soldiers were ever convicted of committing the massacre.
Posted on 12/24/17 at 12:51 pm to feverish
quote:Lt. William Calley was "convicted by court-martial of murdering 22 unarmed South Vietnamese civilians in the My Lai Massacre on March 16, 1968, during the Vietnam War. While not technically exonerated, after three and a half years of house arrest, Calley was released pursuant to a ruling by federal judge J. Robert Elliott who found that Calley's trial had been prejudiced by pre-trial publicity, denial of subpoenas of certain defense witnesses, refusal of the United States House of Representatives to release testimony taken in executive session of its My Lai investigation, and inadequate notice of the charges."
No soldiers were ever convicted of committing the massacre.
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