re: U.S. aluminum/steel shutting down

Aluminum is normally cast into "sows" aka large ingots after the pot lines where alumina is reduced to aluminum via massive amounts of electricity, then the pots are tapped into molds. vessels and pipes tell me that this is where aluminum is melted and blended with other ingredients into alloys.

We lost almost all of our aluminum production in the 1980's as it was located on the Gulf Coast which had an abundance of next to free natural gas before pipelines began to take up northward to the Midwest and East Coast, thus causing the price to rise. Alcoa had a plant near Corpus with dozens of post WWII small natural gas engine powered generators. Kaiser in Baton Rouge and Chalmette shutdown in the middle of large expansion in Baton Rouge. I sold the Soderberg carbon anodes from Grammercy to US Steel in Birmingham. Kaiser turned the buildings into grain storage for the government. I have no idea how the plant in Grammercy limps along.

Aluminum processing requires huge amounts of electricity which means that hydroelectric power is where those plants can operate efficiently thus in Canada, Iceland, Norway and Russia.

Saudi Arabia has a large Bauxite mine and has used its natural gas resources to build up an aluminum business from mine to finished product rather than export its natural gas.

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Says the guy that's ok with taxing the air.

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There are off-grid buildings in every state.

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So?

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Again, it's kind of odd to refer to something as "hopes and dreams" when it is reality for many. I don't deny there will be challenges in growing and scaling. My only point is that controlling your own energy costs is absolutely a strategic move.

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It is not a reality for many. It's a reality for a few and those few are more than willing to accept a far different lifestyle choice than the average citizen (except of course if they have an extremely expensive setup, which you said are excluded for your argument). And I agree that you need to control your energy costs. That's why you don't abandon cheap reliable energy for inefficient and expensive energy that makes you feel good about yourself.

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while i agree with your premise that having distributed power sources for critical industries would be a great plan, but to circle back to the original premise of this thread: it would take a massive investment and effort to create a renewable energy source to power these plants.

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It probably would require massive investment at this point. They were built where energy was cheap, not where it is and will be cheap, right?

And yes, building new plants is also a massive investment. I just think that it would be a wise business decision to build where success or failure doesn't depend entirely on the cost of a resource that you have no control over, but could.

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So?

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So... you were speaking in absolutes in order to claim that I'm playing semantics games.

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It is not a reality for many. It's a reality for a few and those few are more than willing to accept a far different lifestyle choice than the average citizen (except of course if they have an extremely expensive setup, which you said are excluded for your argument). And I agree that you need to control your energy costs. That's why you don't abandon cheap reliable energy for inefficient and expensive energy that makes you feel good about yourself.

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Again, I'm not talking about "feel good" stuff here. You are speaking like someone who is against renewables though you claim to not be.

They gonna put many more into poor house as jobs shutter or close because of this.


There is already a major shortage in plumbing industry. Some ductile pipe is 12-18 months for delivery.

Mueller and Ford are producing virtually no brass fittings,. So new houses or ones needing repair are fricked. One subdivision has 30 brand new homes with water to the pits, but no brass to connect to meters and to lines to house.


It's getting bad, this only pushes it further into the shitters.

"I did this"

Sincerely,

Brian dead tard in oval office

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Expensive, inefficient renewables don't do that like you want them to.

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They do in some cases. And where they don't, they're close. Many technologies are advancing rapidly. Unlike O&G price volatility, there are solutions to these problems.

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And renewables won't stop that. Who do you think controls all the rare earth metals necessary for this shite?

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We could. Rare earths are not particularly rare, and they are not a limiting factor anyway.

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So... you were speaking in absolutes in order to claim that I'm playing semantics games.

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No, you're claiming that the mere presence of something is proof that it's a viable solution. It's not (not to mention your "examples" are likely extremely expensive or extremely reduced modern living standards)

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Again, I'm not talking about "feel good" stuff here. You are speaking like someone who is against renewables though you claim to not be.

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You're talking about these things as if they're viable options in the near future that aren't subject to the same market volatility of other commodities. You're completely ignoring that because you're a tech nerd that lives in fantasy land.

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what’s the implications to your industry?

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Probably extreme profit reductions, layoffs, and ultimately reduced supply of nat gas and crude oil, which will lead to price hikes and increased profits with reduced workforce.

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They're crashing this plane with no survivors

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Progressives version of "the meek shall inherit the earth."

Its got to be destroyed first.