re: U.S. aluminum/steel shutting down

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O&G doesn't get anywhere near the subsidies of green energy. They're not even in the same ballpark.

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Are you counting historically, or just leave the past in the past?

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Also, at least if the domestic O&G market is left alone by the govt, they can make the decision to increase or curtail production to do something fight foreign market manipulation.

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And you think all that fighting will result in stable prices?

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There are many viable grid-scale storage technologies in development. Like I said, I'm confident it will continue marching on.

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I'm sure cold fusion will solve all our problems too, but just like current renewables, it's still a pipe dream.

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It doesn't have to be that way. But even if it remains so for a while, it is strategic to effectively buy a couple decades worth of energy at a fixed cost rather than remain tied to a volatile market for those decades.

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It does have to be that way. Just like all other manufacturing in this country, increasing environmental regulations will run the costs up to the point where it's not economically viable. Hell, the costs are far too high to even start manufacturing now.

Maybe we can just massively subsidize an already existing company. I heard there's a company called Solyndra that could be the solution we need!

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Which is why, you know, ya frickin plan for increases in price, based on market conditions, which have been the same for 12+ months. Like an actual company should.

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I guess your crystal ball must work better than everyone else's. The major increases for fuel and energy were not known 12+ months ago.

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U.S. aluminum/steel shutting down

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Bidens* America

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Nonsense? You pay for sunlight and wind? Those are your "fuel" inputs.

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Yep. I do. They're called taxes.

You're delusional.

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I'd be willing to bet green energy, even historically, gets an exponentially larger one to one subsidy than O&G.

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You may be right. The point is that completely unmolested markets are the real pipe dream. Question is would you prefer one molested by foreign actors that we have no control over, or one molested by regulation and subsidies that we do have some control over?

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It will absolutely keep them in tolerable ranges, especially if we increase use of natural gas, which the US dominates in regards to supply.

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Just the fact that you used the term "tolerable ranges" speaks to the inherent instability of global markets.

Look, I'm not talking about shutting down O&G or regulations or subsidies or any of that shite. I'm talking about private industry running the numbers and choosing in-house energy production when and where it makes sense.

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You may be right. The point is that completely unmolested markets are the real pipe dream. Question is would you prefer one molested by foreign actors that we have no control over, or one molested by regulation and subsidies that we do have some control over?

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I never said there were any "unmolested markets". However, when you have the President of the United States overtly state that his job is to put oil companies out of business, then he basically takes away any and all leverage of domestic producers. This isn't difficult stuff.

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Just the fact that you used the term "tolerable ranges" speaks to the inherent instability of global markets.

Look, I'm not talking about shutting down O&G or regulations or subsidies or any of that shite. I'm talking about private industry running the numbers and choosing in-house energy production when and where it makes sense.

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Energy markets, especially during the rise of 2nd and 3rd world nations have been volatile over the last 15 years. Hindering domestic production basically guarantees higher energy prices. If private industries through that they could reduce the cost of their highest expenditure by generating it onsite, they'd absolutely do it, but they're not. In fact the only reason they're likely to set up green energy production onsite is because of the ESG mafia.

When you see that trading is done, not by consent, but by compulsion - when you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing - when you see that money is flowing to those who deal, not in goods, but in favors - when you see that men get richer by graft and by pull than by work, and your laws don't protect you against them, but protect them against you - when you see corruption being rewarded and honesty becoming a self-sacrifice - you may know that your society is doomed.
-Ayn Rand in Atlas Shrugged

while i agree with your premise that having distributed power sources for critical industries would be a great plan, but to circle back to the original premise of this thread: it would take a massive investment and effort to create a renewable energy source to power these plants.