- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: Universal income discussion
Posted on 5/30/23 at 11:19 am to UFFan
Posted on 5/30/23 at 11:19 am to UFFan
quote:
had no idea that anybody seriously supported the idea in the third millenium.
I certainly don't. But it's in the news a lot with all the AI talk, so I thought it deserved a discussion from an "academic" standpoint.
I don't see a scenario where it would ever work. What will likely happen is that more entitlements will be paid under the guise of "UI" but it will basically just be more welfare.
2
Posted on 5/30/23 at 11:20 am to Eurocat
quote:
If I am an 8 year old kid and my dad is a fireman who gets killed fighting a fire (not due to incompetence or anything, hey firefighters die), shouldn't I get his UI until I am 18 or 21 or something?
Classic Progressive. Take a single specific example meant to both cloud your judgment with sympathy and be an extremely rare situation and use that example to expand the policy or argument as wide as possible on your side while using an appeal to pity to shut down every argument against your views.
You're as predictable as you are ignorant and pathetic.
Posted on 5/30/23 at 11:20 am to Bjorn Cyborg
We basically tried it during COVID.
Productivity plummeted.
Universal Income doesn't work.
Productivity plummeted.
Universal Income doesn't work.
Posted on 5/30/23 at 11:23 am to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:
so I thought it deserved a discussion from an "academic" standpoint.
The cost of all goods will quickly rise to account for all of the guaranteed government money and we will end up in a worse situation as those on UBI are still without the means to affords things they want and those who go above and beyond have both their assets and their current income devalued faster than they can account for.
At the same time, businesses suddenly have to account for the inflation in wages and taxes while losing profit. They also have to account for the change in workforce as those currently paid equal to UBI will quit or demand higher wages. National syndicates can handle this but local businesses cant so you further crush communities and increase reliance on national and federal companies and governments.
This crushes the middle class, pushes the poverty further into destitution, and further polarizes the disparity between the elite upperclass and everyone else.
Because of this the government will then try and step in with price controls and mandates further watering down the product and the returns and quality while also increasing taxes and burdens on those who work. They have the backing of those they guaranteed free money to and use their propaganda to demonize and shout down anyone who disagrees.
This exact scenario plays out every time the government guarantees money for things. Tuition and Healthcare being the most current and relevant examples.
This post was edited on 5/30/23 at 11:29 am
Posted on 5/30/23 at 11:24 am to Eurocat
quote:
If I am an 8 year old kid and my dad is a fireman who gets killed fighting a fire (not due to incompetence or anything, hey firefighters die), shouldn't I get his UI until I am 18 or 21 or something?
Have you heard of life insurance?
Posted on 5/30/23 at 11:25 am to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:
What will likely happen is that more entitlements will be paid under the guise of "UI" but it will basically just be more welfare.
Exactly.
Its just welfare and we will all be dependent on it.
Communism will not be nearly as fun as these little dweebs believe.
Posted on 5/30/23 at 11:26 am to Richard Grayson
quote:
The cost of all goods will quickly rise to account for all of the guaranteed government money and we will end up in a worse situation as those on UBI are still without the means to affords things they want and those who go above and beyond have both their assets and their current income devalued faster than they can account for. Because of this the government will then try and step in with price controls and mandates further watering down the product and the returns and quality while also increasing taxes and burdens on those who work.
This exact scenario plays out every time the government guarantees money for things. Tuition and Healthcare being the most current and relevant examples.
Good points. I agree. It's a horrible idea.
Posted on 5/30/23 at 11:26 am to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:
1. Be universal. Every adult has to get the same amount. It can't vary by income, geography or age.
See this is the problem. Not all work is created equal. Fry cook =\= doctor.
The only way this probably works is a post consumer society, ala Star Trek. Money isn’t important when you have a replicator that can make anything you want or need. Replaces menial tasks.
Posted on 5/30/23 at 11:28 am to JetsetNuggs
quote:
These people will continue living in poverty while they waste the handout that we pay taxes to support
UBI will do nothing but keep the poor where they are while our economy sucks
UBI, the way I see it pitched, is to allow people an income once AI puts everyone out of work. Elon Musk has talked about how UBI might be necessary under such a circumstance.
Posted on 5/30/23 at 11:30 am to Jon A thon
quote:
quote:
We have had universal basic income in this country since at least the 1940s
No.....we haven't
Yes we have. I understand that many want to believe in the myth of rugged, individual, self reliant men working for a living and providing for their families with no assistance from anywhere but that came to an end in the 1930s and has increasingly gotten rarer and rarer. Most people do not earn enough income to make their nut. Every aspect of life is subsidized for the majority of Americans so we can have nice things like public sewers and paved streets and a select few billionaires can be billionaires. Folks ain't dying from lack of nutrition, lack of housing or lack of medical care...not in any sizeable numbers. The majority of people earn some of their nut and make ends meet through such things as FHA mortgages (subsidy) and public education for their kids. I know some will want to say it ain't so but folks are making their nut...somehow...and the cost of the nut is not going down, wages are not going up and crime has been falling for all but the last couple of years for about 25 years....
Posted on 5/30/23 at 11:34 am to AUstar
Yeah, a UBI only is a serious conversation if 60-70% of working age folks just cant get work. All the while, those who own the business automating are becoming god-level rich.
Its not something workable in our current economic reality.
Its not something workable in our current economic reality.
Posted on 5/30/23 at 11:36 am to wileyjones
quote:
2. It has to replace ALL other forms of government handouts and entitlements: No more social security, welfare, foodstamps, etc.
gets my vote
The only compromise worth making. It's better than what we have but not what we should have which is total self independence.
Posted on 5/30/23 at 11:36 am to Duke
It would generate a lot of inflation unless we had mass unemployment and people were just spending it on basic needs.
Posted on 5/30/23 at 11:38 am to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:
My comment was that they were probably already getting that much, or more.
yeah, I see, I should have been a little more specific, what I was trying to ask/imply is that a lot of people would see that stipend as incentive to go out and earn more, don't think it would have that effect with those of that mentality
Posted on 5/30/23 at 11:43 am to Duke
Exactly. At some point this will be necessary but we’re a long way off from that. It simply is not realistic to tell the majority of the population that they should just die after their jobs are automated. That’s how massive civil wars start.
Posted on 5/30/23 at 11:45 am to NOLAVOL16
quote:
. It simply is not realistic to tell the majority of the population that they should just die after their jobs are automated
It will be more important than ever to have multiple skills in the future.
Posted on 5/30/23 at 11:46 am to 777Tiger
quote:
social security
ain't a hand out
Objectively false
Posted on 5/30/23 at 11:48 am to AwgustaDawg
quote:
Yes we have. I understand that many want to believe in the myth of rugged, individual, self reliant men working for a living and providing for their families with no assistance from anywhere but that came to an end in the 1930s and has increasingly gotten rarer and rarer. Most people do not earn enough income to make their nut. Every aspect of life is subsidized for the majority of Americans so we can have nice things like public sewers and paved streets and a select few billionaires can be billionaires. Folks ain't dying from lack of nutrition, lack of housing or lack of medical care...not in any sizeable numbers. The majority of people earn some of their nut and make ends meet through such things as FHA mortgages (subsidy) and public education for their kids. I know some will want to say it ain't so but folks are making their nut...somehow...and the cost of the nut is not going down, wages are not going up and crime has been falling for all but the last couple of years for about 25 years...
Social programs does not equal universal income. Not everyone gets equal cash payments. A safety net social program does not put cash in every Americans bank account. Your argument is dumb and invalid.
Posted on 5/30/23 at 11:52 am to Bjorn Cyborg
At some point, UI is inevitable. The argument isn’t if, it’s when.
Posted on 5/30/23 at 11:52 am to RogerTheShrubber
“ t will be more important than ever to have multiple skills in the future.”
That’s a great platitude and all but completely unrealistic given the breadth and depth of how automation and AI are going to reduce the need for human labor. If there are only 3 jobs for 10 people, the 3 with jobs better have the “skill” to defend themselves because the other 7 hopeless people are highly likely to just kill the first 3.
That’s a great platitude and all but completely unrealistic given the breadth and depth of how automation and AI are going to reduce the need for human labor. If there are only 3 jobs for 10 people, the 3 with jobs better have the “skill” to defend themselves because the other 7 hopeless people are highly likely to just kill the first 3.
Page 5 of 9
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News