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Two of every species, or evolution after the flood?

Posted on 9/28/26 at 5:07 pm
Posted by northshorebamaman
Mackinac Island
Member since Jul 2009
38792 posts
Posted on 9/28/26 at 5:07 pm
I’m genuinely curious how people reconcile these two positions.

If Noah did not literally take two members of every individual species onto the Ark, then the usual explanation is that he took two of each broader “kind,” and the many species we see today descended from those original kinds afterward.

But if that is the explanation, how is that not evolution?

For example, if Noah took one ancestral “dog kind,” and wolves, coyotes, foxes, jackals, domestic dogs, and other canids diversified from that ancestral population after the Flood, that requires inherited variation, mutation, selection, reproductive isolation, and speciation. Those are evolutionary mechanisms.
And because the Flood is supposed to have happened only a few thousand years ago, this would require an extraordinarily rapid amount of diversification in a very short period of time.

So what am I missing? It seems like there are only a few possibilities: either the modern species already existed and Noah had to take representatives of every single species onto the Ark, or broader “kinds” diversified into many species afterward, which is evolution, or there is some third biological mechanism producing new species that I’m unaware of. What is that third mechanism?
Posted by Joshjrn
Baton Rouge
Member since Dec 2008
33789 posts
Posted on 9/28/26 at 5:09 pm to
Posted by Tiger985
Member since Nov 2006
7865 posts
Posted on 9/28/26 at 5:09 pm to
quote:


So what am I missing?


A lot.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
484028 posts
Posted on 9/28/26 at 5:11 pm to
quote:

A lot.

Go on
Posted by northshorebamaman
Mackinac Island
Member since Jul 2009
38792 posts
Posted on 9/28/26 at 5:11 pm to
quote:

A lot.
Clearly, hence the question. You seem confident. What am I missing?
Posted by NC_Tigah
Ray Bans for Max Polarization
Member since Sep 2003
141398 posts
Posted on 9/28/26 at 5:14 pm to
quote:

Two of every species, or evolution after the flood?
I’m genuinely curious how people reconcile these two positions.
Allegory .... idiot!
Posted by northshorebamaman
Mackinac Island
Member since Jul 2009
38792 posts
Posted on 9/28/26 at 5:15 pm to
quote:

Allegory .... idiot!
Sure. That's what I think but many people take a literal interpretation. That's who I'm asking.
Posted by faraway
Member since Nov 2022
4371 posts
Posted on 9/28/26 at 5:17 pm to
quote:

I’m genuinely curious how people reconcile these two positions.

they're mutually exclusive. evolution is a lie from Satan. Believe God or believe satan. choose wisely.
Posted by AcadieAnne
Space Force Cadet 1st Class
Member since May 2019
1887 posts
Posted on 9/28/26 at 5:18 pm to
quote:

If Noah did not literally take two members of every individual species onto the Ark, then the usual explanation is that he took two of each broader “kind,” and the many species we see today descended from those original kinds afterward.


Correct.

quote:

But if that is the explanation, how is that not evolution?


It is. Microevolution isn't an issue.

Edit: I'm not a young earther; just explaining the logic.
This post was edited on 9/28/26 at 5:20 pm
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
484028 posts
Posted on 9/28/26 at 5:18 pm to
quote:

Allegory .... idiot!


I don't think the people who try to force the "kind" distinction often agree this is an allegory
Posted by northshorebamaman
Mackinac Island
Member since Jul 2009
38792 posts
Posted on 9/28/26 at 5:19 pm to
quote:

they're mutually exclusive. evolution is a lie from Satan. Believe God or believe satan. choose wisely.
So you believe in the two of every species on earth theory?
Posted by awestruck
Member since Jan 2015
15012 posts
Posted on 9/28/26 at 5:20 pm to
quote:

And because the Flood is supposed to have happened only a few thousand years ago, this would require an extraordinarily rapid amount of diversification in a very short period of time.


According to written receipts there was another about 2000 years before that...

Posted by northshorebamaman
Mackinac Island
Member since Jul 2009
38792 posts
Posted on 9/28/26 at 5:20 pm to
quote:

It is. Microevolution isn't an issue.
The kinds explanation is not "micro-evolution." It's evolution on steroids.
This post was edited on 9/28/26 at 5:22 pm
Posted by LSUBoo
Knoxville, TN
Member since Mar 2006
104591 posts
Posted on 9/28/26 at 5:23 pm to
quote:

What is that third mechanism?


That it's just a story and disconnected from reality.
Posted by RichJ
The Land of the CoonAss
Member since Nov 2016
6348 posts
Posted on 9/28/26 at 5:23 pm to


Floods can’t kill everything…
Posted by AcadieAnne
Space Force Cadet 1st Class
Member since May 2019
1887 posts
Posted on 9/28/26 at 5:24 pm to
quote:

The kinds explanation in not "micro-evolution." It's evolution on steroids.


They don't see it that way. A bird is a bird is a bird. I've watched some of their videos to figure out what their deal was, and they truly do consider it microevolution. Make of that what you will.
Posted by StrongOffer
Member since Sep 2020
7330 posts
Posted on 9/28/26 at 5:24 pm to
It’s a nuanced conversation. Evolution can exist in a sense that species change over time. That’s different than all species evolving from a single celled organism.
Posted by SuperSaint
Sorting Out OT BS Since '2007'
Member since Sep 2007
151923 posts
Posted on 9/28/26 at 5:26 pm to
quote:

So what am I missing?
besides a chromosome?
Posted by NC_Tigah
Ray Bans for Max Polarization
Member since Sep 2003
141398 posts
Posted on 9/28/26 at 5:28 pm to
quote:

I don't think the people who try to force the "kind" distinction often agree this is an allegory
You are entitled to your opinion. However, in the perihistorical period that is how disaster history was depicted ... in virtually every instance.
Posted by northshorebamaman
Mackinac Island
Member since Jul 2009
38792 posts
Posted on 9/28/26 at 5:28 pm to
quote:


They don't see it that way. A bird is a bird is a bird. I've watched some of their videos to figure out what their deal was, and they truly do consider it microevolution. Make of that what you will.
A wolf and coyote descending from a common ancestor is clearly evolution, and further, the kinds explanation leaves only a few thousand years to evolve. It's hyper-evolution. Yet these same folks very often don't believe in evolution so I'm curious what mechanism leads to the diverse number of species on earth from a few 'kinds.'
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