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Posted on 10/14/26 at 6:35 am to mudshuvl05
quote:
no, it's western protestantism. Just say a quick prayer and you can punch your card for life and say you "believe" as a hedge, like you said, while living life as you see fit.
meanwhile, the fellow next to you at work who has your exact same lifestyle, morals and ethics who didn't say the magical sentence is damned for hell.
Well-said
This post was edited on 10/14/26 at 6:39 am
Posted on 10/14/26 at 7:19 am to Jake88
quote:
Some said they saw nothing.
Okay. But most people who were interviewed said they did. The anticlerical journalist who was there to make fun of the crowd who had gathered for a sign wrote in his anticlerical newspaper that he and other eyewitnesses saw the sun dance in the sky.
This post was edited on 10/14/26 at 7:20 am
Posted on 10/14/26 at 7:32 am to liz18lsu
quote:
liz18lsu
We’re all waiting on the pics … still.
Posted on 10/14/26 at 7:33 am to Mo Jeaux
this thread is nuts 
Posted on 10/14/26 at 7:58 am to cajunangelle
As a Christian, I don’t pray to Mary
Posted on 10/14/26 at 8:03 am to NoBoDawg
quote:
As a Christian, I don’t pray to Mary
You’re missing out, baw.
Posted on 10/14/26 at 9:51 am to RollTide1987
quote:Dont you think the paper who wants to sell copies would interview the most gripping reports?
Okay. But most people who were interviewed said they did
quote:This is from accounts...The newspaper "O Século" published an article by Avelino de Almeida, in which he describes what he witnessed in Cova da Iria on October 13, 1917. Date of writing: October 13, 1917
The anticlerical journalist who was there to make fun of the crowd who had gathered for a sign wrote in his anticlerical newspaper that he and other eyewitnesses saw the sun dance in the sky
quote:So they are primed to see a miracle. They didn't travel and place their hopes in this for nothing! They are going to see a miracle. As a winter rainstorm finally breaks...
And the shepherd children Lucia, 10, the visionary, and her little companions, Francisco, 9, and Jacinta, 7, have not yet arrived. Their presence is perhaps noted half an hour before the time indicated as the time of the apparition. They lead the little girls, crowned with flower crowns, to the place where the portico stands. The rain falls incessantly, but no one despairs. Cars with stragglers arrive at the road. Groups of faithful kneel in the mud, and Lucia asks them, orders them to close their hats. The order is transmitted, and it is obeyed promptly, without the slightest reluctance. There are people, many people, as if in ecstasy; people moved, on whose dry lips prayer has stopped; people astonished, with hands clasped and eyes brimming; people who seem to feel, to touch the supernatural...
quote:So it is hysteria by many and social pressure to have seen something. And then from the same report, this nugget...
The sun resembles a dull silver plate, and it is possible to gaze at its disk without the slightest effort. It doesn't burn, it doesn't blind. One would say that an eclipse is taking place. But then a colossal roar rises, and the spectators who are closest are heard shouting:
— Miracle, miracle! Marvel, marvel!To the dazzled eyes of those people, whose attitude transports us to biblical times and who, pale with astonishment, with their heads uncovered, gaze at the blue sky, the sun trembled, the sun had never-before-seen abrupt movements outside all cosmic laws—the sun “danced,” according to the typical expression of the peasants...
What a pity! There are still men who do not uncover themselves before such a stupendous miracle!13
And then they ask each other if they saw it and what they saw. The greater number confess that they saw the trembling, the dancing of the sun; others, however, declare that they saw the smiling face of the Virgin herself, swear that the sun spun on itself like a wheel of fireworks, that it descended almost to the point of burning the earth with its rays... There are those who say that they saw it change color successively.
quote:
It was enough to satisfy them, to radicalize them in their coal-mining faith. Street vendors offered portraits of the children on postcards and other cards depicting a soldier of the Portuguese Expeditionary Corps "thinking of the help of his protector for the salvation of the Fatherland," and even an image of the Virgin as the figure of the vision... It was good business, and certainly more cents went into the pockets of the vendors and into the collection boxes for the shepherd children than into the outstretched and open hands of the lepers and the blind who, jostling with the pilgrims, threw their alms into the air.
This post was edited on 10/14/26 at 9:53 am
Posted on 10/14/26 at 9:57 am to willeaux
quote:
Take a pic of a shooting star if you don’t mind.
But why? There are millions of pictures of shooting stars. Not sure what your point is.
Posted on 10/14/26 at 11:26 am to Jake88
The cynical take (priming, crowd pressure, and a paper chasing sales) covers the religious atmosphere and some exaggeration, but it does not fully account for the rest.
O Século was a major anticlerical paper that had previously mocked Fatima. Its skeptical reporter, Avelino de Almeida, still published a detailed account of the pale silver disk that could be stared at without blinding, the trembling and dancing of the sun, and freethinkers being moved by what they saw. He reaffirmed the account two weeks later, stating that he was only reporting what he had observed. A hostile outlet does not typically publish and then stand by that kind of report.
The accounts themselves varied. The majority described the pale, non-blinding disk and its movements. Fewer claimed to see the Virgin’s face or a full descent toward the earth, and some reported seeing little or nothing unusual. That range of reports fits a shared visual effect better than pure, uniform suggestion.
Pure in-crowd hysteria is harder to sustain once people miles away, outside the main gathering, are considered. The strongest cluster comes from Alburitel, roughly 10–12 miles distant. Multiple accounts from that village describe people reacting in the streets around noon: a pale spinning disk zigzagging downward, colors washing over objects, and locals fearing the end of the world. These witnesses were not hearing the main crowd’s shouts or following Lucia’s cue.
A multi-person village reaction outside the main event is more difficult to reduce to social pressure among the pilgrims alone. Combined with the advance prediction of a public sign and the reported rapid drying of soaked clothes and mud, the claim that people simply talked themselves into the experience does not fully cover the record.
O Século was a major anticlerical paper that had previously mocked Fatima. Its skeptical reporter, Avelino de Almeida, still published a detailed account of the pale silver disk that could be stared at without blinding, the trembling and dancing of the sun, and freethinkers being moved by what they saw. He reaffirmed the account two weeks later, stating that he was only reporting what he had observed. A hostile outlet does not typically publish and then stand by that kind of report.
The accounts themselves varied. The majority described the pale, non-blinding disk and its movements. Fewer claimed to see the Virgin’s face or a full descent toward the earth, and some reported seeing little or nothing unusual. That range of reports fits a shared visual effect better than pure, uniform suggestion.
Pure in-crowd hysteria is harder to sustain once people miles away, outside the main gathering, are considered. The strongest cluster comes from Alburitel, roughly 10–12 miles distant. Multiple accounts from that village describe people reacting in the streets around noon: a pale spinning disk zigzagging downward, colors washing over objects, and locals fearing the end of the world. These witnesses were not hearing the main crowd’s shouts or following Lucia’s cue.
A multi-person village reaction outside the main event is more difficult to reduce to social pressure among the pilgrims alone. Combined with the advance prediction of a public sign and the reported rapid drying of soaked clothes and mud, the claim that people simply talked themselves into the experience does not fully cover the record.
This post was edited on 10/14/26 at 11:28 am
Posted on 10/14/26 at 12:23 pm to RollTide1987
quote:He didn't say ge saw anything but a pale disk which is a natural phenomena. He said others said thay saw it moving. And I posted earlier, staring at a sun even paler can have ocular effects that make streaks and "effects" from retinal bleaching. Images like this of the sun are extremely common...
Avelino de Almeida, still published a detailed account of the pale silver disk that could be stared at without blinding, the trembling and dancing of the sun, and freethinkers being moved by what they saw
quote:Absolutely, baloney. If something miraculous happened everyone would have seen the same thing. Thats a group of people trying to outdo each other.
The majority described the pale, non-blinding disk and its movements. Fewer claimed to see the Virgin’s face or a full descent toward the earth, and some reported seeing little or nothing unusual. That range of reports fits a shared visual effect better than pure, uniform suggestion
quote:Nope. Everyone around for many ma y miles knew of this pending events. Just because one hasnt the means to get to Fatima does t mean they dont want to be a participant.
A multi-person village reaction outside the main event is more difficult to reduce to social pressure among the pilgrims alone
Again, nothing about this event is remotely supernatural and is far more likely a social contagion of hysteria and religious fervor. If something actually happened, everyone would have seen the same thing, not a bunch of people and their varied interpretations of what they saw.
This post was edited on 10/14/26 at 12:29 pm
Posted on 10/14/26 at 12:44 pm to Jake88
quote:
He didn't say ge saw anything but a pale disk which is a natural phenomena. He said others said thay saw it moving. And I posted earlier, staring at a sun even paler can have ocular effects that make streaks and "effects" from retinal bleaching. Images like this of the sun are extremely common...
The October 15 O Século piece is cautious: Almeida describes the pale silver disk that could be looked at without blinding, then attributes the trembling and “dancing” mainly to the crowd.
Two weeks later he was clearer. In the October 29 Ilustração Portuguesa letter he says what he saw was the rain stopping, the clouds breaking, and the dull silver disk appearing and “beginning dancing in a violent and convulsive dance,” with successive colors. He states he is only affirming what he saw and leaves the interpretation open. So he claimed personal observation of the movements, not only secondhand reports.
Retinal bleaching and afterimages from staring at a dimmed sun can produce streaks, apparent motion, and color effects for an individual, and that can cover some of the experience. It is harder to apply to the whole event: large numbers reported a shared pale non-blinding disk with coordinated movements, some observers miles away described similar effects, multiple witnesses reported rapid drying of soaked clothes and ground, and widespread lasting eye damage was not reported. Afterimages explain individual distortions, but they do not by themselves account for the predicted timing, the hostile journalist’s own report of the dancing, the scale of the core details, and the physical correlates.
quote:
Absolutely, baloney. If something miraculous happened everyone would have seen the same thing. Thats a group of people trying to outdo each other.
Variation doesn’t prove the core was invented. In most large eyewitness events the majority converge on a basic description while a minority add more dramatic details and some see little or nothing. That is what happened here: most reported the pale, non-blinding disk and its movements; fewer claimed the Virgin’s face or a full descent. If people were simply trying to outdo each other, the extravagant versions would have dominated instead of the core holding for the majority. Some people on site seeing nothing also cuts against total social pressure forcing a single narrative.
quote:
Nope. Everyone around for many ma y miles knew of this pending events. Just because one hasnt the means to get to Fatima does t mean they dont want to be a participant.
The children never said what the sign would be - only that a public miracle would occur so people would believe.
That makes the Alburitel accounts harder to reduce to pure expectation or mass hysteria. People in a village 10-12 miles away were not primed for a pale spinning disk, zigzag motion, or color shifts. Ordinary activity was interrupted around noon by a spontaneous street reaction to those specific effects, matching the core reports from the Cova. Shared knowledge of an unspecified “sign” can prime people to look for something, but it does not by itself produce the same visual details in a separate location outside the main crowd’s social pressure.
quote:
Again, nothing about this event is remotely supernatural and is far more likely a social contagion of hysteria and religious fervor. If something actually happened, everyone would have seen the same thing, not a bunch of people and their varied interpretations of what they saw.
Variation does not prove pure contagion. Most large eyewitness events have a shared core plus individual elaborations and some who saw little. That is what happened here: the majority reported the pale, non-blinding disk and its movements; fewer added the Virgin’s face or a full descent. If people were simply outdoing each other, the extravagant versions would have dominated.
The same pattern appears in well-documented physical events. After the 1908 Tunguska explosion, witnesses tens of miles away described a bright object, intense heat, and a shockwave, but details differed. Some reported a fiery streak, others a series of explosions, and others just one large explosion. Not everyone in the broader region saw the same thing, yet the core event was real.
Religious fervor shaped how people framed the Fatima reports. It does not by itself explain the advance prediction of an unspecified sign, the hostile journalist’s later claim of observing the dancing, the multi-person reaction 10-12 miles away that matched the core details, or the reported rapid drying of soaked clothes and ground.
Posted on 10/14/26 at 12:50 pm to RollTide1987
You don't have to go into so much detail defending this. The poster you're responding to pops up in every religious thread I've seen on here to argue against it. That's his own issue.
Posted on 10/14/26 at 1:11 pm to RollTide1987
You are just using AI now.
quote:Yeah, Im not buying this revision as so many non-miraculous motivations come into play at that point, like being one of the few reporters who were there and therefore a relatively notable "source."
So he claimed personal observation of the movements, not only secondhand reports...Two weeks later
quote:Your AI is full of it. Anyone staring at even a hazy partially obscured sun no matter how far away will have the same effect. Do it the next time you see a similar sun set up and then look around. "The sun" is in all directions of view. Heck, go inside and you will see it there too.
Retinal bleaching and afterimages from staring at a dimmed sun can produce streaks, apparent motion, and color effects for an individual, and that can cover some of the experience. It is harder to apply to the whole event: large numbers reported a shared pale non-blinding disk with coordinated movements, some observers miles away described similar effects
quote:This is ridiculous. Come on. Dig deeper and you'll probably ly find other ridiculous claims.
multiple witnesses reported rapid drying of soaked clothes and ground, and widespread lasting eye damage was not reported
quote:Your AI is not very psychologically minded. Only the most zealous and histrionic will try to out do the others. Most will just be impressed by a hazy sun they can somewhat stare at then experience the effects of that retinal bleaching.
If people were simply trying to outdo each other, the extravagant versions would have dominated instead of the core holding for the majority.
Posted on 10/14/26 at 1:30 pm to lsudave1
quote:Im a practicing Catholic, but I dont need miracles to shore up my faith.
The poster you're responding to pops up in every religious thread I've seen on here to argue against it
Posted on 10/14/26 at 1:46 pm to Jake88
There are people who truly believe that some teenaged redneck's gay fantasy about Jesus was a miracle. Perception bias is a hell of a thing.
This post was edited on 10/14/26 at 1:47 pm
Posted on 10/14/26 at 2:44 pm to RollTide1987
Will be visiting there in 3 weeks. Can’t wait.
Posted on 10/14/26 at 3:12 pm to Shimoda
quote:
quote: no, it's western protestantism. Just say a quick prayer and you can punch your card for life and say you "believe" as a hedge, like you said, while living life as you see fit. meanwhile, the fellow next to you at work who has your exact same lifestyle, morals and ethics who didn't say the magical sentence is damned for hell. Well-said
What you are describing is called “easy believism”. It is not doctrinal, but unfortunately, widely preached. I believe it started with the tent revival movement and exploded with the likes of Jack Hyles who wanted to brag about numbers “saved”.
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