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re: The size of the observable universe is 93 billion light years in diameter

Posted on 5/19/21 at 7:42 pm to
Posted by boogiewoogie1978
Little Rock
Member since Aug 2012
19290 posts
Posted on 5/19/21 at 7:42 pm to
quote:

Except for in the eyes of God, yes, I agree

What side of the universe is he on?
Posted by LSUdc
Member since Nov 2011
506 posts
Posted on 5/19/21 at 10:43 pm to
quote:

Check out Stephen Wolfram's research into Cellular Automata - he shows that certain basic rules can give rise to extremely complex structures. I am very much unsure of if I believe in a creator / higher power or not, or just the power of infinity to stumble into the right preconditions to give rise to the universe, but his research is pretty interesting to look into on its own.
Every theory I see starts with some kind of of pre-conditions. I don't care if you have infinity to wait, if nothing is there to cause the conditions required to generate spontaneous matter and anti-matter, then nothing will happen...Ever.

Something or someone had to give law and order and the conditions required for the universe's expansion to occur, whether that be radiation/energy or whatever caused the first particles to exist.

Maybe humans are simple-minded and get a lot of things wrong about God and religion, but in my opinion, believing that everything started by accident from a singularity when there was no existence of time or order (laws of physics) takes a whole lot more faith than believing that something or someone created the building blocks or conditions required for the universe to expand.
Posted by rantfan
new iberia la
Member since Nov 2012
14110 posts
Posted on 5/20/21 at 12:14 am to
quote:

Existing from nothing or being created by something should blow people's mind, either way. ?





Thank you, I've been saying this, isn't it crazy we are on a rock in space , pretty much our planet is a spaceship. It's all crazy
Posted by ChunkyLover54
Member since Apr 2015
6629 posts
Posted on 5/20/21 at 12:20 am to
quote:

I had taco bell and black coffee for breakfast.


I do that too. WFH. Roll up to Taco Bell at 9 and order lunch
Posted by Globetrotter747
Member since Sep 2017
5277 posts
Posted on 5/20/21 at 4:31 am to
quote:

Maybe humans are simple-minded and get a lot of things wrong about God and religion, but in my opinion, believing that everything started by accident from a singularity when there was no existence of time or order (laws of physics) takes a whole lot more faith than believing that something or someone created the building blocks or conditions required for the universe to expand.

To me, the problem with this logic is that Man has attributed the unknown to some sort of deity since the beginning. Why does is rain? Why does it thunder? What causes earthquakes? Deities used to be the answer to all those questions.

Eventually we found the actual answers and it's not really deities. As of 2021, there is not one single fact about the Universe that can be indisputably linked to any form of the supernatural - but we find natural explanations every day.

History has shown us quite clearly that when we don't know something in the present, it's much more likely that future generations will answer it than we find out the supernatural is involved. That's been the case 100% of the time, actually.

We also have our limitations as humans, and that's okay too. Cows standing out in a pasture will never figure out why they get drenched occasionally - but rain is still a natural phenomenon regardless of the cow's ability to understand it. Similarly, we may never figure out X, Y or Z, but that doesn't mean there's a deity behind those answers if we can't.

IMO, until there's solid proof of supernatural entities, it's naive to use them as an explanation for anything.
Posted by davyjones
NELA
Member since Feb 2019
35020 posts
Posted on 5/20/21 at 4:42 am to
quote:

IMO, until there's solid proof of supernatural entities, it's naive to use them as an explanation for anything.

Isn't that the exact basis/concept of faith, a key tenet of most deity-centric religion?
Posted by Globetrotter747
Member since Sep 2017
5277 posts
Posted on 5/20/21 at 5:22 am to
quote:

Isn't that the exact basis/concept of faith, a key tenet of most deity-centric religion?

First of all, I'm talking science, not religion. If people want to preach that the world is 6,000 years old (or similar nonsense) in a church, that's their business. But don't push it on the scientific community.

Second, it's my personal observation that religion is very cultural. People in Alabama, for example, are Christian for the same reason they like football and fried foods: it's what they grew up around. I have always believed that if there were an authentic religion that truly represented an existing deity, it would have more universal appeal. But as it is, culture is indisputably the prevailing factor in religious adherence. If you know where someone's from and what their family believes, you can almost always guess what they believe. There are exceptions, of course, as I am one myself. But by and large religion is a product of culture.

I think more people would see and accept this if they did not have to give up their hope for an afterlife and crutch to lean on in hard times. When you have been conditioned since birth to believe that there's a celestial father figure looking out for you, it's not easy to give that up - especially when it's reinforced by everyone around you.

But one day we'll grow up and stop fooling ourselves, and future generations will look at God and Jesus like we do Zeus and Osiris.
Posted by davyjones
NELA
Member since Feb 2019
35020 posts
Posted on 5/20/21 at 5:45 am to
Well, you seem to throw in a good bit of stereotype in that, and while you may be spot on in some instances, I think it's just too nuanced to use a broad brush. IMO, it's too many different things to too many people, even while coexisting under the same overall umbrella.

One nuanced example is the concept of Higher Power within the world of, say, Alcoholics Anonymous. While there are plenty of people who consider their higher power to be Jesus or God in general, same as non-AA "practitioners," the AA member will apply the concept of the higher power in a somewhat different way.

Heck, I've got no issue with your view of it. It is after all one of the debated subjects that will ever exist, through the ages.
Posted by beaverfever
Arkansas
Member since Jan 2008
35340 posts
Posted on 5/20/21 at 6:29 am to
quote:

IMO, until there's solid proof of supernatural entities, it's naive to use them as an explanation for anything.
Energy can be redistributed but it can neither be created nor destroyed. All of the energy that exists in the universe has always existed. I don’t see how the presence of that energy can be attributed to anything other than the supernatural.
Posted by Crow Pie
Neuro ICU - Tulane Med Center
Member since Feb 2010
27115 posts
Posted on 5/20/21 at 6:54 am to
quote:

In the grand scheme of things, nothing we do will amount to anything that matters.
Helping someone in need is all you, as a minuscule grain of micro-sand in the grand scheme of the universe, can do to make the world a better place..
Posted by spslayto
Member since Feb 2004
21575 posts
Posted on 5/20/21 at 7:42 am to
quote:

All of the energy that exists in the universe has always existed


But there had to be some starting point, right? How can it always have existed? There has to be a beginning at some point. Rhetorical questions that I'm sure we'd all love to have the answer to.
Posted by Odysseus32
Member since Dec 2009
9709 posts
Posted on 5/20/21 at 7:54 am to
quote:

accepting and relishing in just how finite and small our lives really are makes life so much more beautiful

its a shame so many people fight against this


My FIL has this mindset. He doesn't understand what the point of life is if there is no afterlife or god.

It's a completely different philosophy that I'm on the other side. If what we did in this life really meant anything I think the pressure would be outstanding.
Posted by lsucoonass
shreveport and east texas
Member since Nov 2003
69652 posts
Posted on 5/20/21 at 8:06 am to
I agree

But if we’re debating philosophy one can just as easily say “who created the creator” and so forth

We will never have definite answers and that to me makes this life beautiful
Posted by jmcwhrter
Member since Nov 2012
7617 posts
Posted on 5/20/21 at 8:17 am to
Posted by aTmTexas Dillo
East Texas Lake
Member since Sep 2018
22301 posts
Posted on 5/20/21 at 8:49 am to
quote:

In the grand scheme of things, nothing we do will amount to anything that matters.


Well at least a select few of us can understand this stuff. And this wasn't my college major so I do not understand it.
Posted by LSUdc
Member since Nov 2011
506 posts
Posted on 5/20/21 at 12:48 pm to
quote:

To me, the problem with this logic is that Man has attributed the unknown to some sort of deity since the beginning.

IMO, until there's solid proof of supernatural entities, it's naive to use them as an explanation for anything.

The fact that you view man's attribution of the unknown to a deity as a problem evidences your bias, and therein lies the real problem. Many scientists bend over backwards to come up with theories that do not involve some type of deity being involved in creation and end up excluding the possibility.

Ironically, in the end, many of their theories require more faith than the naive simpletons they try so hard to prove wrong. For many in the science community, the theories have become their faith and religion, because they are so zealous to disprove God.

No disrespect to your point of view but don't let bias stop you from exploring all possibilities.
Posted by Globetrotter747
Member since Sep 2017
5277 posts
Posted on 5/20/21 at 7:33 pm to
quote:

The fact that you view man's attribution of the unknown to a deity as a problem evidences your bias, and therein lies the real problem.

The problem with accepting the supernatural into scientific circles is, where we do we draw the line? How do we differentiate between one supernatural cause and another? If the Christian God is an acceptable answer for Mystery A, then why can't any other supernatural entity be acceptable for Mystery B? If all one needs for a legitimate catalyst is an invisible, incorporeal being that can be neither detected nor falsified, that opens quite a few doors.

Maybe they should teach the Gremlin Theory of Engine Failure to mechanics. Why not? Can we prove gremlins don't exist? Can we prove they are not responsible for fricking up a few engines here and there?

If deities (for which there is zero hard evidence) are admissible, why not all the other craziness? You can't show me a deity anymore than I can show you a gremlin, a ghost, an alien, Bigfoot, or whatever.

quote:

No disrespect to your point of view but don't let bias stop you from exploring all possibilities.

All possibilities? There's pretty much no such thing as an impossibility if unverified supernatural causes can be used at any time. I mean, if John Doe is on trial for murder and says Satan showed up at the crime scene and framed him by hacking Mrs. Smith into a hundred pieces right in front of him, it's possible, right? Should that be a valid defense in a court of law? What would happen to the legal system if John Doe got off by blaming Satan? Then everyone else in prison is going to have their lawyers thinking of creative ways to blame Satan too. Hell, maybe Satan did frame him, but without any proof that a being like Satan exists it would turn the legal system into a joke. "Sorry, officer. I didn't mean to drive 100. Damn Satan was holding my foot down."

It just doesn't work, just like God doesn't work in science. That's not to say we know with 100% certainty that no supernatural entity (be it God or whatever) has never intervened in the material world, but until it's proven beyond all doubt that any such entities exist, strict naturalism is the only way to go. And I think that's further reinforced by the fact that countless times throughout history supernatural explanations submitted out of ignorance have been overturned as science has progressed.
Posted by xxTIMMYxx
Member since Aug 2019
17562 posts
Posted on 5/20/21 at 7:38 pm to
quote:

Our universe may be no larger than the petri dish in which it resides


We could also be in a simulation or holographic universe
Posted by xxTIMMYxx
Member since Aug 2019
17562 posts
Posted on 5/20/21 at 7:47 pm to
We are one with all and all is with one
Posted by yankeeundercover
Buffalo, NY
Member since Jan 2010
36419 posts
Posted on 5/20/21 at 8:00 pm to
So what’s at 93.1 billion light years?
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