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re: The most decisive victory in American military history took place 84 years ago today…
Posted on 6/5/26 at 9:35 am to RollTide1987
Posted on 6/5/26 at 9:35 am to RollTide1987
TBH, Midway wasn't strategically decisive. The US would have replaced every lost carrier in months if Japan would have won a crushing victory at Midway. American manufacturing and industrial capacity was practically limitless when compared to Japan's.
Having said that, there's not an American male who hasn't wished he was piloting a Dauntless in Wade McCluskey's squadron along with Dick Best and Dusty Kleiss right before they start the push on that historic dive.
Having said that, there's not an American male who hasn't wished he was piloting a Dauntless in Wade McCluskey's squadron along with Dick Best and Dusty Kleiss right before they start the push on that historic dive.
1
Posted on 6/5/26 at 9:37 am to cypresstiger
quote:
The Battle of Manila Bay in 1898 was so one-sided and quick, that when it was over and Spain’s Pacific fleet was sunk, Admiral Dewey’s order was, “Fall back for breakfast.”
It definitely doesn't get enough love in these conversations
Posted on 6/5/26 at 9:52 am to Lou Loomis
quote:He plagiarized that. (I keed, I keed)
Stephen Ambrose told our class that he never believed that God chose sides in war.
He had an hour-long meeting with my dad (an Okinawa combat veteran) for a book he never got to about the Pacific Theater. They were neighbors.
OP: AF was short on water.
This post was edited on 6/5/26 at 9:53 am
Posted on 6/5/26 at 10:00 am to SoFla Tideroller
Midway effectively stopped the Japanese offensive in the Pacific, restored naval balance between the two forces and started the long drawn out war of attrition.
Jon Parshall stated that, “the defeat at Midway cost the Japanese approximately eighteen months of strategic leverage that their four carriers might have bought them.”
Like you said, America would have easily prevailed but the timetable would have been pushed back. For example, the US invading the Solomons in August would’ve been suicide had the Japanese still had their carriers.
Jon Parshall stated that, “the defeat at Midway cost the Japanese approximately eighteen months of strategic leverage that their four carriers might have bought them.”
Like you said, America would have easily prevailed but the timetable would have been pushed back. For example, the US invading the Solomons in August would’ve been suicide had the Japanese still had their carriers.
Posted on 6/5/26 at 10:15 am to Disco Ball
Midway is one of the movies on my list that I'll watch no matter where I catch it. 10 minutes left? I'm in.
I saw Midway as a kid in the movie theatre, and it was about the time Surround Sound was introduced. I was amazed at the scenes with strafing runs, where the sound you heard was the 20MM cannons from behind you. Most everyone turned around in the theatre as if they would see the Zero's coming in.
Midway was a victory owed to the cryptologists. Of course, the best damn fighting force ever assembled didn't hurt our chances, either.
I saw Midway as a kid in the movie theatre, and it was about the time Surround Sound was introduced. I was amazed at the scenes with strafing runs, where the sound you heard was the 20MM cannons from behind you. Most everyone turned around in the theatre as if they would see the Zero's coming in.
Midway was a victory owed to the cryptologists. Of course, the best damn fighting force ever assembled didn't hurt our chances, either.
Posted on 6/5/26 at 10:21 am to Mr. Curious
Kleiss was the pride of Coffeyville Kansas. He also helped sink a cruiser on June 6.
Posted on 6/5/26 at 10:40 am to kciDAtaE
quote:
Over Gettysburg?
no....Macho Grande
Posted on 6/5/26 at 10:50 am to RollTide1987
The most decisive political victory in American history took place in 1984. Just a little play on numbers.
Posted on 6/5/26 at 11:24 am to Boomer Rick
There is a book that follows Dusty Kleiss’ life. “Never Call Me A Hero”. His Midway recollections are excellent.
Posted on 6/5/26 at 11:54 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
Never forget Torpedo 8!
Brave men for sure. One thing that’s bothered me for years is how their airplane, the TBD Devastator gets a bit of a bad rap. Yes, it was slow. But that’s not because it was obsolete; rather it was because torpedo bombers had to be slow. Plane dropped torpedoes of that time had to be dropped very low and at slow speed to have any chance of hitting their target. Torpedo bombers had to come in at 100’ or less and no more than 110 MPH. Anything more than 100’ off the deck or more than 110 MPH, and the torpedo would have zero chance of making a successful run on the target. Basically, this meant any torpedo bomber was a sitting duck when attacking an enemy fleet with its CAP (combat air patrol) in the air.
And on top of all that, sadly for the Americans, the Mk.13 torpedo being used by USN was quite worthless. It failed to detonate the majority of the time. So not only were the men of Torpedo 8 on a virtual suicide mission, they went into it with very little chance of actually inflicting any real damage to the IJN, even if their torpedoes found their mark.
There was a portion of Torpedo 8 that was already equipped with the TBF, (but not on board Hornet)which was a much better airplane than the Devastator. All US torpedoes in 1942 were pieces of crap, you had to go back to the Mk 10 to find one that worked.
Posted on 6/5/26 at 12:40 pm to sledgehammer
quote:
Like you said, America would have easily prevailed but the timetable would have been pushed back. For example, the US invading the Solomons in August would’ve been suicide had the Japanese still had their carriers.
Yep. Japan never had a prayer's chance of winning the war in the Pacific, so one could argue that no battle in that campaign was strategically decisive given that logic. However, a Japanese victory at Midway would have truly wrecked the timetable for intervention not just in the Pacific but also in Europe. Does Operation Torch happen in November 1942 if the Japanese prevail at Midway? Doubtful. Admiral Ernest King likely prevails in his argument that Japan should be our top priority given that they attacked us. Germany likely gets less of our attention in 1942 and 1943 as a result.
Posted on 6/5/26 at 1:04 pm to sledgehammer
quote:
Midway effectively stopped the Japanese offensive in the Pacific, restored naval balance between the two forces and started the long drawn out war of attrition.
A lost part in all of this...
The win at Midway allowed FDR to stick to the Europe-first strategy
If the Japanese had succeeded in its plan at Midway... FDR may have been forced to move considerable resources from Europe to the Pacific (including the other American carriers)... extending the war on BOTH fronts... not just the Pacific
Midway completely stabilized the Pacific theater & allowed the resources to remain where they were and FDR could keep his Europe first promise to Churchill
Posted on 6/5/26 at 1:28 pm to RollTide1987
quote:Correct and I like these what-ifs scenarios. The Europe first strategy would’ve fallen apart and Midway would’ve forced our hand to turn to the Pacific first.
Does Operation Torch happen in November 1942 if the Japanese prevail at Midway? Doubtful. Admiral Ernest King likely prevails in his argument that Japan should be our top priority given that they attacked us
Japan was already planning on taking the New Hebrides islands (Espiritu Santo and New Caledonia), the Fiji Islands, and Samoa. That would’ve cut our shipping routes to Australia completely. I believe in Shattered Sword there was even Japanese talk about taking Johnson atoll and the French frigate shoals as well. All those plans obviously got canned after Midway.
You and I both know that the Hawaiian islands were never a possibility and the Japanese knew that as well. But I believe had Midway gone in Japanese favor, the US would’ve been forced to move the pacific fleet back to the west coast as a precaution.
Posted on 6/5/26 at 2:17 pm to sledgehammer
quote:
I did not know that. Thank you for that information as I’ll definitely get that one.
Actually it is out now. I had pre-ordered it a few months ago and I just got the notification that it has shipped and will be here tomorrow.
This post was edited on 6/5/26 at 2:18 pm
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