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re: The guys who ride behind the pilot in jet fighters..
Posted on 2/18/23 at 8:15 pm to Pandy Fackler
Posted on 2/18/23 at 8:15 pm to Pandy Fackler
Weapon Systems Officer (WSO) is a naval flight officer responsible for manning the weapon systems of the F/A-18F Super Hornet from the jet's rear seat. In the F-14 Tomcat, they were Radar Intercept Officer (RIO). If I’m not mistaken, they go through flight training just like the pilot. The Intel Officer I worked for in the Air Force was an ex Wizzo on the F-4 Phantom. He was not a rated pilot.
1
Posted on 2/18/23 at 8:24 pm to Pandy Fackler
Back in the 70s and 80s Navy fighters only had flight controls in the front seat while Air Force fighters had dual flight controls. I believe that it's still true, but not 100% certain. Even when both services were flying the F4 Phantom, Navy Phantoms only had flight controls in front seat while Air Force Phantoms had dual controls. When the Air Force flew the F-111 it too had dual controls but it's a side-by-side (tandem) seating configuration. I knew someone who was a navigator in a F-111 and he said that he got plenty of stick time.
This post was edited on 2/18/23 at 8:25 pm
Posted on 2/18/23 at 8:30 pm to jcaz
Yeah if they were Lizzo’s we would need a complete overhaul of the power and lift that can be generated with the jet propulsion and scram jet. At least quintuple the power.
Posted on 2/18/23 at 8:31 pm to NotYourDaddy
Oddly enough the F-106 trainer had side by side seats, it was a good thing to let the gib get some stick time back in the day, that is once you felt they could do that job at least as good as you :lol.
ETA.: the wizzo stuff, not the flying
ETA: still seeing so much wrong in this
ETA.: the wizzo stuff, not the flying
ETA: still seeing so much wrong in this
This post was edited on 2/18/23 at 8:36 pm
Posted on 2/18/23 at 8:37 pm to Bryno1960
quote:
If I’m not mistaken, they go through flight training just like the pilot.
You are mistaken. The NFOs in the Navy do not go through flight training just like the pilots. They are a separate training pipeline and learn how to navigate/work the weapon systems but do not receive flight training. Not to say some of them might not be better pilots than me, but not because they received flight training while in the USN training pipeline.
ETA: Like anything else, Follow The Money!! They aren't going to waste money training a guy/gal to fly when they don't have flight controls in their section of the cockpit!!
This post was edited on 2/18/23 at 8:39 pm
Posted on 2/18/23 at 8:38 pm to Saint Alfonzo
Sometimes known as GIB
Guy in back
Guy in back
Posted on 2/18/23 at 8:48 pm to flyingtexastiger
Thank you for correcting me. I wasn’t sure but thought I read they did as I’m not familiar with Naval Aviators.
Posted on 2/18/23 at 8:57 pm to Pandy Fackler
Passing this one over to my husband to respond since it happens to be right in his wheelhouse…
“There are two main wings in the Navy, Pilot Wings and Naval Flight Officer (NFO) Wings, (they also have similar designations in the Air Force, but I know more about the Naval service having been both a Tomcat RIO and later a Tomcat pilot). Every aircraft has at least one Pilot. F-14, F-18, F-16, F-15, S-3, While Large/Multi-engine aircraft have 2 pilots, KC-10, KC-135, C-130’s, etc. in addition to the pilot, some of these aircraft also have an NFO: F-14’s (RIO), F-15E’s (WSO), F-18E’s (WSO). There is no way to fly these jets from the backseat, so the NFO only has one flight control, and that is his ejection handle, I gripped it more than a few times as a new pilot was pushing the envelope, but never pulled it. The Air Force F-4 did have flight controls in the backseat, and they flew a lot of pilots in the backseat, but the Navy never had that capability - if they did, not many Navy jets would have landed on a carrier.”
“There are two main wings in the Navy, Pilot Wings and Naval Flight Officer (NFO) Wings, (they also have similar designations in the Air Force, but I know more about the Naval service having been both a Tomcat RIO and later a Tomcat pilot). Every aircraft has at least one Pilot. F-14, F-18, F-16, F-15, S-3, While Large/Multi-engine aircraft have 2 pilots, KC-10, KC-135, C-130’s, etc. in addition to the pilot, some of these aircraft also have an NFO: F-14’s (RIO), F-15E’s (WSO), F-18E’s (WSO). There is no way to fly these jets from the backseat, so the NFO only has one flight control, and that is his ejection handle, I gripped it more than a few times as a new pilot was pushing the envelope, but never pulled it. The Air Force F-4 did have flight controls in the backseat, and they flew a lot of pilots in the backseat, but the Navy never had that capability - if they did, not many Navy jets would have landed on a carrier.”
Posted on 2/18/23 at 9:17 pm to Jim Rockford
quote:
IIRC the backseaters eyesight requirements aren't as stringent.
I just finished reading the book TOPGUN Days by a former F-14 RIO/TOPGUN instructor. He went to NAS Pensacola do flight school planning to be a pilot. His eyesight dq'd him from being a frontseater but he could still be a RIO.
Also, according to him, in the Tomcat he didn't have any flight controls in the back, but in the 2 seat version of the F-5 he flew as an instructor, he did.
Posted on 2/18/23 at 9:41 pm to Pandy Fackler
Imagine going through all that training just to ride bitch.
Posted on 2/18/23 at 9:44 pm to flyingtexastiger
Whoever dv'd my post, explain yourself or GTFO!!
Posted on 2/18/23 at 9:46 pm to flyingtexastiger
Ask a question about Naval Aviation.
Receive factual responses from actual Naval Aviators.
Downvote
Profit?!?
Receive factual responses from actual Naval Aviators.
Downvote
Profit?!?
Posted on 2/18/23 at 9:52 pm to Pandy Fackler
quote:
I know they don't do the flying but are they also pilots or could they be?
They can fly but the Chinese fire drill to swap seats with the pilot inside the canopy at Mach 1 is generally not advised.
Posted on 2/18/23 at 10:29 pm to flyingtexastiger
quote:
Receive factual responses from actual Naval Aviators.
Downvote
Profit?!?
Goddamn, man, this happens so often on TD, I know you have to be drinking to be surprised. I watched Top Gun at NAS Atsugi when it was released surrounded by sailors, so I clearly know what I'm talking about
Posted on 2/18/23 at 10:56 pm to Pandy Fackler
They serve the pilot pretzels and Diet Coke.
Posted on 2/18/23 at 11:03 pm to Turf Taint
quote:
serve the pilot pretzels
Back in the day, it was peanuts!
Posted on 2/19/23 at 12:44 am to Pandy Fackler
The RIO also doesn't have to have 20/20 vision.
Posted on 2/19/23 at 1:10 am to Pandy Fackler
Weapons system operators.
Posted on 2/19/23 at 7:45 am to flyingtexastiger
quote:still best words ever by a RIO... Devil 101 in med after pilot shot down usaf f4... "what the frick did you just do"
Whoever dv'd my post, explain yourself or GTFO!!
Posted on 2/19/23 at 8:49 am to Richard Flagget
quote:
F-15 E
Interesting fact about the Strike Eagle…when you get to the B course (when you learn to fly your particular MWS) they pair you with a Wizzo who is in the Wizzo B course. You go to the sim with that Wizzo and I believe you solo with him/her.
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