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re: The education data out of Mississippi is getting more insane. They have zoomed past CA
Posted on 9/27/25 at 12:11 pm to bogart
Posted on 9/27/25 at 12:11 pm to bogart
quote:
Getting all the illegals out will make a big difference.
Might help the overall numbers.
But the massive disparity between black California students and black students in other states shows California is doing something wrong.
0
Posted on 9/27/25 at 12:14 pm to JoeHackett
Whole language is essentially “throw them into the pool and they’ll instinctively know how to swim”. While phonics is “break it down into pieces and then put together into the whole”
Posted on 9/27/25 at 12:15 pm to JoeHackett
quote:
According to the article the use the "whole language" method that encourages students to vaguely guess at words based on context instead of figuring them out sound-by-sound. Looking into that further starts to peel back the layers of the onion.
Whole language is the worst thing to ever happen to public education. Anyone still advocating for it should be run out on a rail.
Posted on 9/27/25 at 12:16 pm to Upperdecker
quote:
Whole language is essentially “throw them into the pool and they’ll instinctively know how to swim”. While phonics is “break it down into pieces and then put together into the whole”
Combined with teaching words as a “picture” like you would Mandarin. It’s mind numbingly bad.
Posted on 9/27/25 at 12:19 pm to Joshjrn
quote:
Combined with teaching words as a “picture” like you would Mandarin. It’s mind numbingly bad.
Yea that’s terrible. Any competent method of teaching anything in present day era focuses on teaching underlying skills. This method is backwards - it’s the definition of teaching to the test. Learn the exact words you need, and anything you haven’t seen before will be foreign
Posted on 9/27/25 at 12:20 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
We were taught phonics-based when I was in school in the 70s & 80s and it seemed to work well. Not being a teacher, I had no idea schools had moved away from this.
Posted on 9/27/25 at 12:27 pm to Bard
quote:
We were taught phonics-based when I was in school in the 70s & 80s and it seemed to work well. Not being a teacher, I had no idea schools had moved away from this.
It took the nation by storm about… ten or so years ago? Louisiana was one of, if not the, first state(s) to move back to “science of reading” which is basically phonics mixed with a touch of phonetics. It’s pretty cool, teaching kids the names of certain sounds, how the mouth forms those sounds, etc. A few years later, we started seeing across the board massive improvement in reading scores. Whole language is basically indefensible at this point, yet somehow, it still has its supporters.
This post was edited on 9/27/25 at 12:28 pm
Posted on 9/27/25 at 12:33 pm to Joshjrn
Yep they began teaching words by association and context instead of sounding them out. They show a first grader a picture of a boy throwing a ball and tell him to read the sentence. He’s essentially just putting the picture into words instead of reading. I listened to a podcast about how America started teaching reading this way and how terrible it was. Essentially some lady brought it from New Zealand and got the right people to adopt it. I wish I could remember the name of the podcast.
Posted on 9/27/25 at 12:36 pm to PillPusher
quote:
Yep they began teaching words by association and context instead of sounding them out. They show a first grader a picture of a boy throwing a ball and tell him to read the sentence. He’s essentially just putting the picture into words instead of reading. I listened to a podcast about how America started teaching reading this way and how terrible it was. Essentially some lady brought it from New Zealand and got the right people to adopt it. I wish I could remember the name of the podcast.
shite gets me angry. I always catch people off guard when teaching kids to read comes up and I climb on this soapbox, as like many of the people on this thread, they have no idea this fundamental shift happened. But it’s also why I get so annoyed at the posters who do the “hur dur they probably cooked the books” bullshite. I want to shake them and say “no, you assholes; we actually did something right this time. Celebrate and reinforce it!”
Posted on 9/27/25 at 12:46 pm to JoeHackett
quote:
"whole language"
That’s so dumb on its face. You learn to read by learning to read. You will naturally stop sounding out words and transition to that after. Of course we don’t sound out words once we are established readers. But to learn that way? lol.
Posted on 9/27/25 at 12:59 pm to Bestbank Tiger
quote:
ESL isn't an excuse. I can read Spanish and pronounce words correctly. I just have to look up what the words mean in some cases. If I were living full time in a Spanish speaking country I would gain passive exposure and remember the vocabulary better.
Problem is their neighborhoods cater to Spanish. Signs, radio, stores etc
Other countries don’t cater, we do.
Posted on 9/27/25 at 1:21 pm to Upperdecker
quote:
Learn the exact words you need, and anything you haven’t seen before will be foreign
No wonder kids can't read. Every book is basically Finnegan's Wake, some words you know surrounded by random letters.
Posted on 9/27/25 at 1:23 pm to Oilfieldbiology
quote:
That’s racist as shite
???
Posted on 9/27/25 at 1:24 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
I'm very impressed with Mississippi's decision to actually make education work. I believe this can happen across the country with just a bit of effort.
Great job, Landmass
Great job, Landmass
Posted on 9/27/25 at 1:39 pm to JoeHackett
quote:
No wonder kids can't read. Every book is basically Finnegan's Wake, some words you know surrounded by random letters.
It’s also initially deceptive. Kids can read more “fluidly” early on while the list of pictures you’re having them memorize and spit out is small, while kids learning phonics start out slow and stilted. Then, about a year later, the phonics kids blow past the whole language kids and never slow down, while the whole languages kids slow down, then plateau. It’s a brutal trap that would be considered child abuse if done intentionally.
This post was edited on 9/27/25 at 1:40 pm
Posted on 9/27/25 at 1:42 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
Coddling to the kids, passing them regardless, giving them trophies fo raccomplishing nothing, etc. has its consequences and you'll see that here.
Posted on 9/27/25 at 1:44 pm to BigBinBR
quote:
It’s due to phonics-based teaching.
Why they ever stopped this is mindboggling.
They did it because leftists toyed with data that was based on things that do not matter AT ALL like demographics, geography, and money to come up with programs that were never proven and have performed abysmally.
Posted on 9/27/25 at 1:48 pm to Hester Carries
quote:There is a good podcast called “sold a story” that dives deep into this. It’s honestly infuriating
quote:"whole language" That’s so dumb on its face. You learn to read by learning to read. You will naturally stop sounding out words and transition to that after. Of course we don’t sound out words once we are established readers. But to learn that way? lo
Posted on 9/27/25 at 1:54 pm to Joshjrn
quote:
while the whole languages kids slow down
I was thinking about that earlier, if you haven't learned to read (or read well) by the time you reach a certain age, teachers are no longer dedicating time to reading. It would be almost impossible during normal class time to ever get caught up.
Posted on 9/27/25 at 2:01 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
Damn Mexicans ! Lol
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