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re: Tesla Cyber Truck or Rivian R1T
Posted on 11/26/19 at 2:55 pm to CarRamrod
Posted on 11/26/19 at 2:55 pm to CarRamrod
quote:quote:
It is! And your link proves it.did you read the whole article?
I did, did you?
quote:
“We’re shifting pollution, and in the process we’re hoping that it doesn’t have the environmental impact,” says Abraham. He believes that when you add all the environmental impacts, they still come out in favor of electric vehicles. (The Union of Concerned Scientists agrees; it found that even when you add in emissions from battery manufacturing, EVs generate half the emissions of a conventional car over the course of its life.)
quote:
OK, so an electric vehicle contributes a fair bit of pollution and greenhouse gases to the world. But you know what else does? A gasoline-powered car. Even though they don’t have batteries, conventional automobiles can contain plenty of the same problematic rare metals that electric cars do. (Remember those magnets?) You can’t judge Tesla, or any other electric car, in a vacuum. You must compare it to the status quo. And that status quo has many of the same problems—plus the carbon emissions and air pollution generated by traditional gas guzzlers.
1
Posted on 11/26/19 at 2:55 pm to CarRamrod
quote:
oohh dont forget about all the plastics that had to be made from oil and refined to make all these electric batteries and parts for these cars/trucks. the footprint of an electric vehicle is way more than a normal vehicle
Nobody cares hippy
Posted on 11/26/19 at 2:56 pm to shel311
quote:
the government isn't funding Tesla.
quote:
esla received $713 million in U.S. subsidies in Q3, compared to its $312 million profit.
This post was edited on 11/26/19 at 2:57 pm
Posted on 11/26/19 at 2:58 pm to Korkstand
quote:i did.
I did, did you?
quote:oh course they do.
“We’re shifting pollution, and in the process we’re hoping that it doesn’t have the environmental impact,” says Abraham. He believes that when you add all the environmental impacts, they still come out in favor of electric vehicles. (The Union of Concerned Scientists agrees; it found that even when you add in emissions from battery manufacturing, EVs generate half the emissions of a conventional car over the course of its life.)
quote:even experts cant agree. LINK
Are electric cars as polluting as fossil-fuel cars?
There is some ambiguity regarding this issue as even experts fail to agree. In order to draw up their calculations, scientists not only rely on known data, but also on hypothesis as well as possible scenarios. Depending on the assumption, electric cars are either a lot less, equally or sometimes even a lot more polluting than engine powered traditional cars.
This post was edited on 11/26/19 at 3:01 pm
Posted on 11/26/19 at 2:58 pm to CarRamrod
Headline from that link:
Then you actually read the article:
The article takes all of the tax credits given to consumers and attempts to subtracts it from Tesla's quarterly results.
quote:
Tesla received $713 million in U.S. subsidies
Then you actually read the article:
quote:The $713m the headline mentioned that Tesla receives...the article explains that Tesla does not receive a penny of that $713m
Obviously, Tesla itself doesn't see this $7,500 per car
The article takes all of the tax credits given to consumers and attempts to subtracts it from Tesla's quarterly results.
Posted on 11/26/19 at 3:00 pm to fightin tigers
quote:It helps them sell cars, no question.
I'm fine with government subsidizing an emerging industry. No problem at all. Tesla fanboi's just try to write it off as if those subsidies don't matter.
I honestly haven't really seen any Tesla "fanboys" on TD like you see on Twitter and Reddit.
But others, like the guy and the article you saw linked are intentionally disingenuous with regards to how the tax credit works and who receives it.
Posted on 11/26/19 at 3:00 pm to CarRamrod
It's not really "special" treatment when all the other auto manufacturers are getting subsidies too though.
Posted on 11/26/19 at 3:01 pm to CarRamrod
quote:You linked the article, keep reading.
esla received $713 million in U.S. subsidies in Q3, compared to its $312 million profit.
Your own article explains that Tesla didnt' receive a single penny of that amount.
NOT A HATER AT ALL!!!
This post was edited on 11/26/19 at 3:02 pm
Posted on 11/26/19 at 3:02 pm to fightin tigers
quote:
They are paying some customers in excess of 7500 to purchase a Tesla product.
Whether the same is available to other manufacturers or not does not change that fact.
So here is the problem I see with this argument. Just an observation of mine, but it seems that the vast majority of Tesla "haters" are of a particular political lean. The same political lean that argues that tax breaks for one class are NOT the same as entitlements for another class (even though the same principle applies, tax liability is shifted downward). Yet here you are making the claim that giving a customer of a company a tax credit is equivalent to the government funding that company.
This is part of the propaganda.
Posted on 11/26/19 at 3:03 pm to CarRamrod
quote:1. That number is false, as I've said. Tesla did not receive that amount of money.
well special treatment could be defined many ways.... and in this case, subsidies is special treatment.
2. How is it special treatment to Tesla if every electric carmaker in America gets the same treatment?
Posted on 11/26/19 at 3:04 pm to Ramblin Wreck
Tesla I’m the only one on OTL who likes the design
Posted on 11/26/19 at 3:06 pm to Korkstand
quote:Check out the article that other poster posted and the quotes I pulled from it.
Yet here you are making the claim that giving a customer of a company a tax credit is equivalent to the government funding that company.
The actual headline says Tesla received almost 3 quarters of a billion in subsidies. ANd that poster is continually quoting and laughing to prove his point.
He failed to read the article HE linked that goes on to say Tesla actually does not receive almost 3 quarters of a billion in subsidies...but it didn't stop them from putting it in their headline.
Posted on 11/26/19 at 3:06 pm to shel311
quote:
1. That number is false, as I've said. Tesla did not receive that amount of money
Their customers fronted them the money and the feds/locals reimbursed the customers.
You are being disingenuous.
Posted on 11/26/19 at 3:06 pm to SirWinston
quote:You're definitely one of very few so far it seems.
Tesla I’m the only one on OTL who likes the design
I'm still not a fan, but have 2 years to see if it'll grow on me.
This post was edited on 11/26/19 at 3:07 pm
Posted on 11/26/19 at 3:09 pm to Korkstand
quote:
Yet here you are making the claim that giving a customer of a company a tax credit is equivalent to the government funding that company.
This is part of the propaganda
The subsidies did exactly what they were supposed to do though. Why deny that?
The government rewarded the customers for buying electric, the subsidizing
is supposed to make the costs competitive. This isn't some great crime.
I don't get why Tesla knights have a problem with this.
This post was edited on 11/26/19 at 3:10 pm
Posted on 11/26/19 at 3:09 pm to shel311
quote:why yes.
Then you actually read the article:
quote:
Conclusion: In my view, without subsidies, there would be no Tesla.
As far as I'm concerned, Tesla's main product isn't the car, it's the subsidies. Without $713 million in quarterly subsidies from the United States alone, I don't think Tesla would be in business.
Posted on 11/26/19 at 3:11 pm to fightin tigers
quote:The problem, again, is something I've yet to see you or anyone address...ONLY Tesla gets called out for this when every single automaker can get this credit.
I don't get why Tesla knights have a problem with this.
And since only Tesla gets called out for it, others go on to believe the government is literally handing money over to just Tesla and no one else, directly to Tesla.
Posted on 11/26/19 at 3:12 pm to CarRamrod
Good so you read they didn't actually receive the subsidy the article claims Tesla "received."
quote:Guess we'll find out starting on January 1st, 2020.
Conclusion: In my view, without subsidies, there would be no Tesla.
As far as I'm concerned, Tesla's main product isn't the car, it's the subsidies. Without $713 million in quarterly subsidies from the United States alone, I don't think Tesla would be in business.
Posted on 11/26/19 at 3:12 pm to shel311
I addressed this. You must gave missed it.
Virtially all of Tesla sales benefit from this. Ford or other manufactures aren't dependent on these in order to make ends meet.
Every single one of Tesla cars vs a small percentage of other manufacturers.
Virtially all of Tesla sales benefit from this. Ford or other manufactures aren't dependent on these in order to make ends meet.
Every single one of Tesla cars vs a small percentage of other manufacturers.
Posted on 11/26/19 at 3:16 pm to fightin tigers
quote:I would argue that there are many more Ford/Chevy diehards than there are for Tesla, but ok.
I would say there are just as many Tesla disciples as there are detractors.
quote:I don't know if you consider me to be a "disciple", but Tesla/Musk absolutely could do wrong in my eyes. As it happens, though, just about everything that Musk does is beneficial, in MY opinion, to humanity at large and Americans in particular.
Tesla, and Musk, can do no wrong in their eyes.
It seems irresponsible at best, and a national security problem at worst, to depend so heavily on non-renewable resources for energy. We absolutely must (again, in MY opinion) invest in renewable energy sources. Musk/Tesla are doing their part here with EVs and solar panels.
Also my opinion, I think science and space exploration are a must for our species in the long-term. Musk/SpaceX are doing their part here.
And I think we can all agree that manufacturing products in America is important. Again, Musk/Tesla/SpaceX are doing their part here. Why do so many people shite on a company that is moving a shitload of battery manufacturing from Japan to the US? They are also shifting some solar panel/module production from Chinese companies to the US.
Creating a bunch of American jobs, making us more energy-independent, and making space exploration cheaper (and doing it profitably). What wrong has he done so far? Honest question.
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