re: Tesla Cyber Truck or Rivian R1T

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I addressed this. You must gave missed it.

Virtially all of Tesla sales benefit from this. Ford or other manufactures aren't dependent on these in order to make ends meet.

Every single one of Tesla cars vs a small percentage of other manufacturers.

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What? Don't we bail out one or more of the Big 3 automakers every 10 or 20 years? The idea that the Big 3 are independent of government is silly. If the government didn't swoop in to save their incompetent behinds, they would have ceased to exist decades ago.

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What? Don't we bail out one or more of the Big 3 automakers every 10 or 20 years? T

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No.

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oh course they do.

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And what sort of credentials do your sources have?

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even experts cant agree.

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What else is new?

Also from your link:

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But one thing is sure: the negative health impact of fossil-fuel cars

Diesel and petrol cars also emit other harmful air pollutants such as nitrogen oxides (NOx), which are considered to be carcinogenic.
Although diesel cars release 20% less CO2 than petrol cars, yet they produce more fine particles dangerous to health. These particles, invisible to the eye, may find their way into the lungs. Particulate matter emission is held responsible for no less than 12,000 premature deaths a year in Belgium!

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So there's that.


But back to the environmental issues, yeah different people with different agendas are going to calculate things differently. That has always been the case and will always be the case. I will even accept estimates I've seen that an EV is TWICE as bad for the environment to manufacture as an ICE vehicle. But given that your average vehicle will go 150k miles at an average of 25mpg, that's 6,000 gallons of fuel that has to be extracted, shipped, refined, shipped again, and then fricking burned over the lifetime of the vehicle. Even if we assume the worst case for an EV and say it "burns" the equivalent of half that, that's still 3,000 gallons (18,000 pounds), or 6 times the weight of the vehicle itself, that an ICE vehicle goes through. It's hard to imagine that the manufacturing process differs by that much, especially considering the majority of the vehicles are made the same way and out of the same materials. It's mostly the battery that opponents point to, but none of the materials in them are particularly rare. Cobalt is the material that gets most of the attention, but there is only 30 pounds of it in a car, and there is a huge push to source it in more sustainable ways and in areas without human rights issues.

Controversial opinion I want the Tesla truck

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Cobalt is the material that gets most of the attention, but there is only 30 pounds of it in a car, and there is a huge push to source it in more sustainable ways and in areas without human rights issues.

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Lithium and cobalt have been the center of this. Lithium has already gone a long way to converting to relatively low impact lithium salt production in Bolivia for example. Rare earth nodules from the Clarion Clipperton Zone in the Pacific are probably going to feed our need for cobalt in the years to come, though the US is left out of that bonanza.

Just like the O&G industry, they started out really dirty but extraction and refining became cleaner over time.

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Attacks media for being impartial.

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What?

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Stock manipulation and fraud.

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With tweets? I agree we need to crack down on highly influential people using public platforms to manipulate markets.

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Accusing the diver guy of being a pedo (then doubling down because he was fine with ruining the guy even if it cost him a few million)

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OK, I agree that this whole fiasco was absurd, though Musk has since called himself a "fricking idiot" over it. It was obviously wrong, but if we're setting the bar at name-calling then few people in the world have done no wrong.

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Lies about drug use

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Not sure what his personal life and vices have to do with anything.

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Lies about safety issues

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Like what?

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The weird school (but rich people are rich so it is just strange even though nothing is wrong with it)

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Not sure what you're referring to.

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Rewriting Tesla history

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How so?

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The whole Solar City scam

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This was quite a high profile deal. If it was truly a scam, I'd expect to see some charges.

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the dude is sleazy and sketchy. Admittedly, to be successful it probably requires some balance

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I agree with you here.

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Doesn't even touch on that fraudulent hairline that he is passing off now.

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Come on now, since when is vanity a sin?

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Lithium and cobalt have been the center of this. Lithium has already gone a long way to converting to relatively low impact lithium salt production in Bolivia for example. Rare earth nodules from the Clarion Clipperton Zone in the Pacific are probably going to feed our need for cobalt in the years to come, though the US is left out of that bonanza.

Just like the O&G industry, they started out really dirty but extraction and refining became cleaner over time.

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Right, one industry has been at it for a century, and the other only a couple decades. People often ignore this fact.

Also, I can't take people seriously who point out "blood cobalt" as a knock on EVs, as if no one has ever died over oil.

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Musk

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My company did some work for Tesla back when they were trying to ramp up Model 3 production. I've never been a Musk fan boy, but I had a generally positive opinion of him at the start. I had heard the rumors about him being a shitty boss and didn't give them much credence. But after seeing him throw a massive temper tantrum and walk one of our employees out of his Reno plant over something that couldn't possibly have been our employee's fault (he had just flown in), I believe those rumors. He's a gigantic baby who instills a culture of fear among his employees. I would have been embarrassed to lose my temper the way he did, especially over something that was ultimately his own fault.

I hope he succeeds simply because he's helped to disrupt some stagnant industries, but the guy is a massive jackass. I suppose it comes with the territory when you're a billionaire.

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That's kind of the point. Nobody ever talks about Kia even though there are way more of them on the roads than Teslas.

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Well.... start a Kia thread. Why would I comment on other automakers in a thread about Tesla?

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but I would find it pretty fricking weird if someone were to say they hate Kia.

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There’s a dying breed out there that are strongly anti Asian car.

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I hate Teslas", as in their products, I wouldn't bat an eye. "I hate Tesla", as in the company, that's strange.

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If one hates all of a companies products, why would it be strange for that person to say they hate that company?

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I didn't assume, I told you exactly how your post reads.

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I legitimately said I hate all of their products

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How can you not be sure where I got it from? Your statement, followed by your next statement, clearly has that meaning.

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What about the one where I said I hate all of their vehicles?

Like I said earlier. Your fixation on the word “hate” is extremely strange. Do I “hate” Tesla in that I get extremely pissed and just can’t contain my anger? frick no. That’s stupid as frick.

I use the word “hate” in the “i really dislike them”. You’re making a mountain out of an anthill and it’s quite strange.

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But after seeing him throw a massive temper tantrum and walk one of our employees out of his Reno plant over something that couldn't possibly have been our employee's fault (he had just flown in), I believe those rumors. He's a gigantic baby who instills a culture of fear among his employees. I would have been embarrassed to lose my temper the way he did, especially over something that was ultimately his own fault.

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Have you been around many very successful people? Honest question, because this is very common behavior among highly successful type A's.