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re: Storm Watch- Gulf- Tropical Depression- Northward Miss. Valley

Posted on 6/7/20 at 2:57 pm to
Posted by tgrbaitn08
Member since Dec 2007
148031 posts
Posted on 6/7/20 at 2:57 pm to
quote:

We should be in the eye of the storm here in Nola right?


Just left Home Depot heading to warehouse district and it’s coming down pretty good. I don’t think this is the eye yet
Posted by tgrbaitn08
Member since Dec 2007
148031 posts
Posted on 6/7/20 at 2:58 pm to
quote:

like a baw

I came inside


Posted by t00f
Not where you think I am
Member since Jul 2016
102122 posts
Posted on 6/7/20 at 3:00 pm to
Unwrapped and full delivery
Posted by t00f
Not where you think I am
Member since Jul 2016
102122 posts
Posted on 6/7/20 at 3:04 pm to
This has to be the low level “center”

Remember. “ “

Posted by 50_Tiger
Arlington TX
Member since Jan 2016
43450 posts
Posted on 6/7/20 at 3:09 pm to
Last hi-res is the most symmetrical this system has looked since in the gulf. Going off of wind map, center is actually somewhere in Bartaria Bay
Posted by Tarps99
Lafourche Parish
Member since Apr 2017
12721 posts
Posted on 6/7/20 at 3:11 pm to
quote:

We got USPS and Amazon deliveries today. My wife is out of control.


Well the unofficial motto of the post office is:

quote:

Neither snow nor rain nor heat nor gloom of night stays these couriers from the swift completion of their appointed rounds.


Posted by tgrbaitn08
Member since Dec 2007
148031 posts
Posted on 6/7/20 at 3:11 pm to
quote:

The gates at all three outfall canal structures - at the 17th Street canal, the Orleans Avenue Canal, and the London Avenue canal - have been closed ahead of tropical storm Cristobal. This is done to protect the walls and levees along the outfall canals, which despite two rounds of multimillion dollar upgrades in 2011 and 2014, still require protection from storm surge in Lake Pontchartrain.

Currently, the lake is 3.8 feet above mean lake level and rising. I don't know what the exact trigger for closure of the lakefront gates is, but I'm guessing it's three feet. That's based on the fact the gates at each lakefront station are "capable of passing the total outfall canal’s discharge with Lake Pontchartrain’s stage at 4’, 4’, and 3’ for 17th St., Orleans Ave., and London Ave, respectively without violating the prescribed maximum operating water level (MOWL)." That section in quotes is taken from the Corps' own most recent reports on the outfall canals (the so-called 2017 "reevaluation reports," which I don't mind saying the publication of which I pushed for over a span of literally years; link to the reports can be found in the comments)

The impact on drainage is this: the agency in control of the lakefront stations - the Southeast Louisiana Flood Protection Authority - East, or SLFPA-E - must coordinate their lakefront with the Sewerage and Water Board at their inland drainage pump stations to ensure levels within the canals do not rise too high.

Theoretically, the walls along the canals are rated up to 8 feet for most of their length, the Corps' so-called "MOWL" mentioned above. They used to call it the "safe water level," but got away from doing so when they decided to stop giving people the impression they could protect them. That was around the same time they rechristened the "Hurricane Protection System" as the mouthful "Hurricane and Storm Damage Risk Reduction System" or "HSDRRS."

Here's the MOWL details for each canal, working from the lake back into the city:

17th Street canal: 8 feet from the lakefront back to about Locust Court (that's a street in Jefferson Parish), then 10 feet from Locust Court back to S&WB drainage pump station (DPS) 6

Orleans Avenue canal: 8 feet for the whole length from the lakefront back to S&WB DPS 7

London Avenue canal: 8 feet from the lakefront back to between Sere and Lafrienere Street, then 9 feet from there back to S&WB DPS 3

Coordination between the two agencies is a requirement since the Corps refused to do the right thing about ten years ago and turn the outfall canals into strictly drainage channels like they have in Jefferson Parish. The plan, dubbed Option 1, would have demolished the three pump stations at the south end of each canal and deepened and channelized the canals, getting rid of the weakened levees and I-walls and leaving drainage pumping only at the lakefront. Instead, the Corps rigged the information given to the public on costs, fundamentally disobeyed congressional legislation, and offered a lesser alternative called option 2. Option 2 is what we have now, a fundamentally less safe relay system of pumping stormwater out which, unlike what was originally promised way back when, requires the lakefront gates to drop even when the lake is only elevated by 3 feet.

Even today, there is still work happening along the outfall canals due to their weakness. The SLFPA-E embarked on a project this year - delayed for six years by the Corps - to reinforce eroded sections of canal bank along the 17th Street canal by driving sheet pile and dumping rocks. Similar projects are to follow along the other two canals. None of that expense would have been necessary had Option 1 been built, but the Corps exerted their muscle and left New Orleans less safe.

None of that is a knock on those left to operate the system. They have been training for this for two years, and have been given pretty good tools. The data systems for each agency have been interlinked more robustly than was originally planned, thanks to the July and August, 2017 floods.

After those events, Veolia was given an extensive contract to perform a condition assessment of the entire S&WB drainage and power system. But as part of that contract, they were also told to install an extensive data acquisition and visibility system that gives instant feedback on what is happening with every pump, turbine, frequency changer, and most generators. It is called simply the visibility platform, and it is insanely easy to use.

The system is extensive, with thousands of data points measuring electrical and mechanical attributes of every pump, electrical feeder, and tons of other equipment. Aspects like power, voltage, vibration, on/off status for breakers and even direction of pump rotation, along with rainfall totals and rates and local water pressure at drainage pumping stations at ten fire stations are measured, archived, and (hopefully) used for decision-making on a daily basis, and especially during major events like the current one.

As to the coordination aspect, the data from the S&WB visibility system is sent out to SLFPA-E, and Jefferson Parish (only for pump station 6, which JP pays 25% of the operating cost for). The S&WB also gets back the data from the SLFPA-E. Those data chains contain multiple links. Here's how Veolia described it in 2018:

"The SLFPA-E collects data from their three stations and feeds it to the S&WB via the Modbus protocol from their VTSCADA system over an encrypted network tunnel over the internet. When the data arrives at the S&WB it is captured by a software product called KEPWare, translated to the OPC DA protocol and then fed into Pi. There are many links in this chain and the two organizations need to back up this system with a manual failsafe plan should one of the links in the chain break during an emergency situation."

Hopefully, S&WB and SLFPA-E have indeed come up with a manual backup plan as Veolia recommended. I wouldn't be surprised if there were actually multiple such plans. When the Corps of Engineers ran the show during tropical events, data was transmitted primarily by fiberoptic cable, with a primary backup via microwave via the towers at each end of the canals, and secondary backup via Iridium satellite phone.
Posted by tgrbaitn08
Member since Dec 2007
148031 posts
Posted on 6/7/20 at 3:12 pm to
quote:


There's also, I believe, SLFPA-E personnel placed in the S&WB pump stations to ensure coordination proceeds properly between the ends of each canal.

In the end, I believe the danger to the walls and levees along the canals is less than it was when the Corps ran things with their crappy interim closure structures (since demolished). During the Corps' only true test of their system in 2012 during Hurricane Isaac, about one third to one half the Corps' pumps failed, one actually caught fire, and the MOWL along the 17th Street canal was exceeded for a long time, forcing the S&WB to turn off or not turn on drainage pumps, constraining stormwater from getting out of the city. Only by pure luck of the rain letting up was the catastrophe of a levee breach - most likely on the Jefferson Parish side just south of I-10 - averted.

Now the pump stations at the lakefront are much more robust, they're newer, and they've had folks training on them for years. But that doesn't mean they're perfect, and that doesn't mean that things can't go wrong. But that's not the main reason I believe the walls are safer.

I believe that because I think the decades-long degradation of S&WB pumps has so reduced their pumping capacity that they can't actually put enough water out in comparison to the lakefront stations to raise the level in the canals high enough to threaten the walls. The lakefront stations' pumps were built based on S&WB's nameplate capacities, and even have extra pumping capacity built in. But the S&WB's pumps haven't been at nameplate for, in some cases, over 100 years.

Veolia's condition assessment included flow testing of every pump in the system. With few exceptions, most run below their nameplate capacity, some far below it. Additionally, there is evidence in Veolia's report that the S&WB drainage pumping stations are less than the sum of their parts.

That is, according to Veolia's testing, bringing multiple pumps on line a given station doesn't necessarily produce the sum of those pumps' flowrates. In fact, it produces far, far less. Here's an example from west bank drainage pumping station 13 in Veolia's 2018 testing report:

"For example at DPS13, integrated station flow testing was performed on 10/24/2017 with Pumps 6, 7, V1, V2, and CD3 in operation and a flow rate of 1,580 CFS was measured. The summation of the test results from these same pumps when operated individually was 2,210 CFS, and the summation of their name plate capacities is 2,700 CFS."

Put simply, running five pumps at DPS 13 produced only about half the flow as advertised by the nameplate flowrates of individual pumps. For reference, S&WB quotes the nameplate flowrates when discussing their system.

So in a weird way, the S&WB's decrepit drainage system works to the advantage of protecting the outfall canal walls. But let's not lose sight of the larger point: it is very possible that when S&WB drainage pumping stations are running all out, they are draining far, far less water than S&WB claims they are. Keep this in mind when S&WB says how many pumps are available or were running or whatever news they try to spin.
Posted by Large Farva
New Orleans
Member since Jan 2013
8725 posts
Posted on 6/7/20 at 3:14 pm to
You love super long posts that no one reads.
Posted by Armymann50
Playing with my
Member since Sep 2011
22400 posts
Posted on 6/7/20 at 3:16 pm to
quote:

I just cracked a Bud Light to offset my gayness
the first step is admitting you have a problem.
Posted by tgrbaitn08
Member since Dec 2007
148031 posts
Posted on 6/7/20 at 3:16 pm to
Well it answers a lot of questions when people ask about the pumping situation in Nola. You don’t have to read it. It’s there for whoever wants to read it
Posted by t00f
Not where you think I am
Member since Jul 2016
102122 posts
Posted on 6/7/20 at 3:16 pm to
I read most of it

No wind for the last 20mins.
Posted by Ed Osteen
Member since Oct 2007
59246 posts
Posted on 6/7/20 at 3:17 pm to
shite it so annoying when scrolling through the thread for quick updates
Posted by wallowinit
Louisiana
Member since Dec 2006
17744 posts
Posted on 6/7/20 at 3:19 pm to
Holy walls of text Baitman!

Ain't nobody got time for that!
Posted by tgrbaitn08
Member since Dec 2007
148031 posts
Posted on 6/7/20 at 3:19 pm to
quote:

shite it so annoying when scrolling through the thread for quick updates


fricking millennials with short attention spans
Posted by Large Farva
New Orleans
Member since Jan 2013
8725 posts
Posted on 6/7/20 at 3:20 pm to
Not a single person asked for it and you could have given cliffs and provided a link
Posted by SuperSaint
Sorting Out OT BS Since '2007'
Member since Sep 2007
150384 posts
Posted on 6/7/20 at 3:20 pm to
quote:

tgrbaitn08
Posted by TheArrogantCorndog
Highland Rd
Member since Sep 2009
15954 posts
Posted on 6/7/20 at 3:21 pm to
This thread has devolved into complete dogshit filled with alcoholic online shoppers... it's pretty useless at this point
Posted by Armymann50
Playing with my
Member since Sep 2011
22400 posts
Posted on 6/7/20 at 3:21 pm to
quote:

Water’s creeped up on patio
hasn't come over the bulkhead yet. Still have 5inches to geaux.
Posted by tgrbaitn08
Member since Dec 2007
148031 posts
Posted on 6/7/20 at 3:21 pm to
quote:

Not a single person asked for it


Sometimes the best things in life are free
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