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Posted on 6/13/24 at 9:24 am to low end
quote:IVF or religious values?
This is so antithetical to this country and it's founding.
Posted on 6/13/24 at 9:25 am to TigerDeacon
quote:
Is owning a gun a sin? Guns can be used to kill people which is a sin, but owning and using a gun isn't necessarily a sin. Circumstances matter.
I'm going to expand on my own point.
IVF at its core helps couples have a baby which is a good thing. God created a process whereby the sperm combines with the egg to create life. In a case of normal procreating, the sperm swims to the egg inside a foreign (for it) environment, a woman's body. IVF provides a shortcut for that sperm to get to the egg. Life is created and if all goes well the life survives and is born. I don't see helping the sperm reach the egg is a bad thing.
What people are getting caught up in the weeds of what choices people make. If you are talking about someone discarding embryos because they wanted tall blond haired boys, thus destroying all girls and male embryos without those traits, then we are talking about something altogether different.
Posted on 6/13/24 at 9:25 am to low end
quote:
This is so antithetical to this country and it's founding.
John Adams said, “Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”
Posted on 6/13/24 at 9:25 am to StrongOffer
quote:
IVF or religious values?
The thought that organized religion or it's values belong anywhere near politics.
Posted on 6/13/24 at 9:27 am to low end
quote:You know nothing of the origins of our country if you think this is true. The separation of church and state was to protect churches from the government, not the other way around.
The thought that organized religion or it's values belong anywhere near politics.
Posted on 6/13/24 at 9:28 am to Jack Bauers HnK
Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should “make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,” thus building a wall of separation between Church & State.
- Thomas Jefferson
- Thomas Jefferson
This post was edited on 6/13/24 at 9:29 am
Posted on 6/13/24 at 9:28 am to chRxis
quote:
very good rebuttal
I thought there would be some pushback but the dude paused, thought about it, smiled, and said "you got me"
Posted on 6/13/24 at 9:28 am to lsunurse
quote:
Organized religion is all a bunch of hypocrites.
i agree that there are a LOT of hypocrites sitting in those pews, attending mass, kneeling at the mosque, etc.... but there are also a lot of really good people there too.... i can't condemn everyone, but there are a lot of people claiming their moral superiority that really, really shouldn't be
Posted on 6/13/24 at 9:31 am to TDsngumbo
quote:
Maybe it is, maybe it’s not. But I’m not about to tell a woman she’s committing a mortal sin by attempting to bring a new life into this world by using IVF because she can’t get pregnant the traditional way.
This is pretty much my stance. Are there people who abuse it? Sure. But most people who use IVF just want to be good parents.
Posted on 6/13/24 at 9:31 am to Jim Rockford
quote:
Southern Baptist Convention: IVF is a sin
Doesn’t matter. Time to be a man and think for yourself.
This post was edited on 6/13/24 at 9:32 am
Posted on 6/13/24 at 9:33 am to Carson123987
quote:
I just discovered that most religious people are against IVF. Pretty stupid. I had it explained to me as "it's obviously not in gods plan so you can't try to get around that"
I have some cousins who are really really religious. They wouldn't go to another cousin's baby shower because they'd conceived with IVF.
Posted on 6/13/24 at 9:33 am to AwesomeSauce
quote:
Find the verse and convert my thinking here, because I do not see it.
Thou shall not kill.
Throughout the IVF process, several embryos are created and many are thrown out or frozen in perpetuity. If you believe life begins at conception like many Christians, then it’s no different than murder.
Posted on 6/13/24 at 9:34 am to low end
quote:
thus building a wall of separation between Church & State.
That’s all well and good, but asking people who participate in a democracy to leave their religious beliefs at the door before entering a voting booth is not possible. You can’t ask someone to abandon conviction before making a decision that could have an effect on their lives.
Posted on 6/13/24 at 9:36 am to low end
Yeah that's saying we shouldn't be a theocracy and government should make decisions for the people and not on behalf of any church. That's very different than saying religious views should not be considered when making laws.
Posted on 6/13/24 at 9:37 am to DeafJam73
quote:
You can’t ask someone to abandon conviction before making a decision that could have an effect on their lives.
Are christians going through IVF en masse? If IVF is something that would so greatly affect their lives, maybe they shouldn't get IVF.
Posted on 6/13/24 at 9:39 am to StrongOffer
When religious dogma is used as a justification for making laws within a country, that is literally making decisions on behalf of organized religion.
Posted on 6/13/24 at 9:40 am to DeafJam73
You're asking one type who thinks they're superior or right to condemn someone who isn't. crazy conundrum
Posted on 6/13/24 at 9:41 am to lsunurse
quote:
And focused on the one good embryo I was left with. Which actually didn't implant when they transferred it.
So would those backwoods IVF laws these religious nut jobs want mean I was liable because it didn't take???
It is very obvious to me that all these rules these men make up about conception, sex, what's allowed and what's not are just there to attempt to control their congregations and even more so, to continue to exercise control on women.
If a couple has a relationship with God, they can pray and decide what God's intention in their life is. They don't need Popes and Priests and Ministers to tell them how to think about it.
This post was edited on 6/13/24 at 10:30 am
Posted on 6/13/24 at 9:43 am to low end
quote:
Are christians going through IVF en masse? If IVF is something that would so greatly affect their lives, maybe they shouldn't get IVF.
The ones who believe so deeply likely don’t, but in the context of voting on the legality of IVF, you can’t expect devout Christians to leave their beliefs at the door and vote in favor of its legality. Citing separation of church and state can’t realistically apply. People are going to vote with their conscience.
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