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re: Shooting at Orlando gay club: 50 Dead, 53 Injured, Shooter is Radical Muslim
Posted on 6/13/16 at 11:35 am to TheCaterpillar
Posted on 6/13/16 at 11:35 am to TheCaterpillar
true and depending on the type of rounds used, one shot could have hit two or three folks
curious if they will release the number of shell casings recovered on the scene, wondering how many shots he fired.
if semi auto and say 150 rounds were fired, that takes a while, maybe 3-4 rounds per second, thats about a minute of shooting, with mag swaps in there
he could have had a drum though i guess and not needed to reload
curious if they will release the number of shell casings recovered on the scene, wondering how many shots he fired.
if semi auto and say 150 rounds were fired, that takes a while, maybe 3-4 rounds per second, thats about a minute of shooting, with mag swaps in there
he could have had a drum though i guess and not needed to reload
1
Posted on 6/13/16 at 11:36 am to OMLandshark
quote:
The factors I'm putting in are mostly innocents caught in your crossfire. It would be very difficult not to do so. You could feasibly lead to more deaths than it helps.
You could feasibly save more lives than if no one engages the suspect as well. I hate going down this rabbit hole, because everyone looks for definitive answers in these situations.
Posted on 6/13/16 at 11:39 am to Theboot32
quote:
or did he just pull the trigger a shite ton of times?
My damn finger would be tired after 100 rounds rapid fire....
quote:
It sounds to me from that timeline from the Wapo article that many of those killed were taken out by the cops when they stormed the building at 5 a.m. I'm not casting aspersions, I'm just speculating that there was much blood spilled when they went in.
Agree. They had no clue how many shooters, who the shooter was, or where he was in the club.
If that did happen, I'm sure it would be all over the news by now.
Posted on 6/13/16 at 11:41 am to Shexter
Read the NYT article I posted under the picture of the club. Better timeline.
Posted on 6/13/16 at 11:51 am to upgrayedd
quote:
You could feasibly save more lives than if no one engages the suspect as well. I hate going down this rabbit hole, because everyone looks for definitive answers in these situations.
There also a million factors. I.E. where you are in the bar.
you could be the first guy he sees
or your are the middle of crowd. Stuck in the chaos.
However if you happen to be at the side and have a clean shot. Could save a lot of lives
I think having a sober cc holder is better than not having one. However I just don't think that would be very likely even if it were legal.
I have said a bunch in this thread but crowded club is just a terribly effective place for a mass shooter to go.
Posted on 6/13/16 at 11:58 am to upgrayedd
quote:
I don't mean to sound crass, but that crime scene has got to be a gigantic hotzone of potential blood borne pathogen exposure.
I would think the active shooter situation would be more dangerous, than the post shooting, crime scene. Standard blood born pathogens regulation personal protective equipment would be required for investigators and clean-up.
Posted on 6/13/16 at 11:58 am to Theboot32
quote:
true and depending on the type of rounds used, one shot could have hit two or three folks
A really good friend of mine is in the ER Residency program at ORMC, the hospital where most of the victims were brought.
I spoke with him last night, I asked him if there were entry/exit bullet wounds, he said yes..however that wasn't the main concern, as was the number of gunshot wounds per victim. He said one person was brought in with 8 or more gunshot wounds.
Posted on 6/13/16 at 11:59 am to ThatMakesSense
Horrible
Posted on 6/13/16 at 12:00 pm to ThatMakesSense
quote:
I spoke with him last night, I asked him if there were entry/exit bullet wounds, he said yes..however that wasn't the main concern, as was the number of gunshot wounds per victim. He said one person was brought in with 8 or more gunshot wounds.
That sounds like FMJ projectiles are likely.
Posted on 6/13/16 at 12:02 pm to bdevill
quote:
I would think the active shooter situation would be more dangerous, than the post shooting, crime scene.
Uh, yeah.
quote:
Standard blood born pathogens regulation personal protective equipment would be required for investigators and clean-up.
Uh, yeah.
Posted on 6/13/16 at 12:04 pm to ThatMakesSense
quote:
one person was brought in with 8 or more gunshot wounds.
Wonder if they'll ever get a round count from spent cases on the floor. That guy must've fired 400+ rounds in that club, or there was more than one shooter.
Posted on 6/13/16 at 12:07 pm to YouAre8Up
quote:Drunk, beyond packed club, darn, flashing lights, no clue what's going on or where the shots are even coming from...not sure anyone could have.
How many CC permit holder's could honestly handle being in that situation?
Definitely not the initial confrontation. Maybe you hole up in a room and get "lucky" if you can see the shooter before he sees you at some point.
Posted on 6/13/16 at 12:07 pm to Shexter
quote:
Wonder if they'll ever get a round count from spent cases on the floor. That guy must've fired 400+ rounds in that club, or there was more than one shooter.
A FMJ projectile moving at 3,000-3,400 fps can easily go through multiple people. That's probably why some of these people have so many rounds in them. Especially given how packed the place was.
Posted on 6/13/16 at 12:09 pm to upgrayedd
I would bet most guys that CC every day they leave their house are as competent or more than your average cop. I'm not saying they are swat or anything, but I've been shooting since I was like 3.5 years old. I think it's laughable that people think intelligent, college educated, and trained citizens would freak out in a shooting while a cop that goes through a couple months of training, HS educated, and makes $35k a year would be much better suited.
That's nothing against cops at all, it's simply that just because you are a cop doesn't make you great at dealing with a mass shooting subject. There are plenty of average CC guys that practice way more than your average police in shooting a gun. Not to mention, a good percentage of CC guys are ex military and law enforcement.
That's nothing against cops at all, it's simply that just because you are a cop doesn't make you great at dealing with a mass shooting subject. There are plenty of average CC guys that practice way more than your average police in shooting a gun. Not to mention, a good percentage of CC guys are ex military and law enforcement.
This post was edited on 6/13/16 at 12:10 pm
Posted on 6/13/16 at 12:10 pm to ThatMakesSense
quote:I heard some of the same.
A really good friend of mine is in the ER Residency program at ORMC, the hospital where most of the victims were brought. I spoke with him last night, I asked him if there were entry/exit bullet wounds, he said yes..however that wasn't the main concern, as was the number of gunshot wounds per victim. He said one person was brought in with 8 or more gunshot wounds.
I worked in that ED for 8 years and lived maybe 1-2 minutes from the hospital and club for 5 years. I have a bunch of friends who still work in the ED, can't imagine how tough that was trying to deal with the onslaught of patients they received.
Posted on 6/13/16 at 12:12 pm to baldona
quote:
I would bet most guys that CC every day they leave their house are as competent or more than your average cop. I'm not saying they are swat or anything, but I've been shooting since I was like 3.5 years old. I think it's laughable that people think intelligent, college educated, and trained citizens would freak out in a shooting while a cop that goes through a couple months of training, HS educated, and makes $35k a year would be much better suited.
That's nothing against cops at all, it's simply that just because you are a cop doesn't make you great at dealing with a mass shooting subject. There are plenty of average CC guys that practice way more than your average police in shooting a gun. Not to mention, a good percentage of CC guys are ex military and law enforcement.
I know many people that say most cops are shooters. They do their yearly qualification then the gun goes right back into the holster until next year.
Posted on 6/13/16 at 12:12 pm to shel311
You are talking about most likely Full metal jacket .223 at less than 50 ft. I bet we could find it somewhere online, but I'd bet that at that range it could easily go through 2 people center mass and into a 3rd. Maybe through 3 or more. Shooting a dance floor of people with 1 30 round clip and you'd probably have over 100 entry wounds easily. Its sickening to think of.
Posted on 6/13/16 at 12:18 pm to baldona
I also don't understand why any of you non gun guys think that a CC holder at a 'club' would be drunk. That's a horrible assumption. Plenty of people go out and don't drink, and I've never met anyone that drinks while they CC. It's against the law for one, but most people that CC are actually very competent. I know that may blow people's mind. It's very likely that a large club like that could have a staff member behind the scenes or doing security that CC's also.
I would never advocate a bar having drinking patrons CC, but that's certainly not the only situation a patron could be CCing.
I would never advocate a bar having drinking patrons CC, but that's certainly not the only situation a patron could be CCing.
Posted on 6/13/16 at 12:20 pm to baldona
What's adding insult to injury is that the survivors will have to go through HIV testing now with a very real chance that they have been exposed through no fault of their own.
Posted on 6/13/16 at 12:21 pm to fr33manator
quote:
What's adding insult to injury is that the survivors will have to go through HIV testing now with a very real chance that they have been exposed through no fault of their own.
I'm sure they already go through that routine on a regular basis
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