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re: Severe weather outbreak Central and Southern Plains States - DFW, OKC, Wichita

Posted on 4/26/16 at 1:46 pm to
Posted by Chatagnier
Member since Sep 2008
6851 posts
Posted on 4/26/16 at 1:46 pm to
Looks like there was some rotation about 10-15 mins ago. Too close to the radar tower now to see good. Headed in the Chesterfield direction.

Edit: looks like it settled down in the last couple frames.
This post was edited on 4/26/16 at 1:48 pm
Posted by Duke
Dillon, CO
Member since Jan 2008
36494 posts
Posted on 4/26/16 at 1:52 pm to


Ive always been fascinated with the weather, so I enjoy sharing what I've picked up. Hopefully I can distill the technical aspects (note: not an expert) in a way people without my obsession can pick it up.
Posted by rds dc
Member since Jun 2008
21676 posts
Posted on 4/26/16 at 1:54 pm to
A few areas look to have a higher tornado risk this afternoon based on the mesoscale evolution this morning. Up in Kansas, who cares about Kansas, there is an outflow boundary that is separate from the warm front.

Central Oklahoma storms may have left some boundaries around that could increase local threat.

Then N. Texas will have better winds through the column and an increasing LLJ since no morning convection down south. Storms should line out in this area but any discrete storms could cause issues.
Posted by Strannix
C.S.A.
Member since Dec 2012
54216 posts
Posted on 4/26/16 at 1:59 pm to
quote:

One thing to watch, any areas that get storms overnight could end up with a locally enhanced tornado risk tomorrow afternoon.


expound on this please?
Posted by Duke
Dillon, CO
Member since Jan 2008
36494 posts
Posted on 4/26/16 at 1:59 pm to
quote:

rds dc


I appreciate you throwing your knowledge in here, I always end up learning something.

quote:

Central Oklahoma storms may have left some boundaries around that could increase local threat.


Wondering if they'll mix out before the dryline pushes in personally.

quote:

Then N. Texas will have better winds through the column and an increasing LLJ since no morning convection down south. Storms should line out in this area but any discrete storms could cause issues.


I'm thinking the same thing. Thinking it'll line out by DFW, but going to be nervous afternoon for points west if something breaks the cap.
Posted by rds dc
Member since Jun 2008
21676 posts
Posted on 4/26/16 at 2:00 pm to
Large tornado watch coming soon



Posted by 50_Tiger
Arlington TX
Member since Jan 2016
43534 posts
Posted on 4/26/16 at 2:01 pm to
It's sad I trust the OT for DFW weather more than DFW weather broadcasts....
Posted by Duke
Dillon, CO
Member since Jan 2008
36494 posts
Posted on 4/26/16 at 2:02 pm to
quote:

expound on this please?


What he's getting at is those storms will locally cool the atmosphere in the surrounding area. Which means there isn't the "cap" mentioned above limiting convection. So, that area can provide the potential for individual cells to fire off. With no competition for inflow, those storms have more potential to get spinning.

rds can offer a more complete answer.
Posted by Chatagnier
Member since Sep 2008
6851 posts
Posted on 4/26/16 at 2:02 pm to
What am I looking at with those numbers? Pressure changes?
Posted by dewster
Chicago
Member since Aug 2006
26627 posts
Posted on 4/26/16 at 2:03 pm to
quote:

Central Oklahoma storms may have left some boundaries around that could increase local threat.


Thanks for the update. Hopefully that doesn't pan out.

Northern OKC/Edmund area here....everyone is planning on leaving work early.
This post was edited on 4/26/16 at 2:06 pm
Posted by Duke
Dillon, CO
Member since Jan 2008
36494 posts
Posted on 4/26/16 at 2:04 pm to
Air temperature in red, dew point in green.

The "dry line" is the green front looking feature pictured.
This post was edited on 4/26/16 at 2:06 pm
Posted by dewster
Chicago
Member since Aug 2006
26627 posts
Posted on 4/26/16 at 2:07 pm to
quote:

Air temperature in red, dew point in green.

The "dry line" is the green front looking feature pictured.


Dry Line is the front right?

What's the significance of the dew point in storms like this? I mean, I know what a dew point is but I have no idea of what a higher/lower dew point does with respect to severe weather.

Some of you are really proficient in this area.
This post was edited on 4/26/16 at 2:13 pm
Posted by Chatagnier
Member since Sep 2008
6851 posts
Posted on 4/26/16 at 2:10 pm to
Was wondering the same thing. I thought the pressures were more important.
Posted by Duke
Dillon, CO
Member since Jan 2008
36494 posts
Posted on 4/26/16 at 2:13 pm to
Think of the dew point as a measure of water vapor in the air. Water vapor is lighter than the nitrogen and oxygen that makes up the majority of our air, so it is more buoyant; therefore, more readily rises.

Water also has a very high latent heat of vaporization, which is just a measure of the extra energy water picks up when it goes from liquid to gas. When it cools as it rises, the water vapor turns into a liquid and releases that energy as heat. Which in turn warms the air around it, and the warm air rises.

Thus you have more rapid updrafts and when you get them spinning...you get tornados. It'll be easier if you're from the coast to think of a hurricane. The warm water puts more vapor in the atmosphere. The hurricane picks it up and condenses it, increasing the driving force to raise it up.

ETA:
quote:

Was wondering the same thing. I thought the pressures were more important.


Without going too deep into vapor/liquid equilibriums, the lower the pressure the more vapor can be liberated. Also, lower pressure indicates rising air. Air flows from high pressure to low pressure (basically, it's really chemical potential but I don't even want to know that so I'll spare you). Low pressure sucks in that warm moist air to fuel the storms and if the gradient is tight enough, the speed of the inflow helps spin up cyclones.

Cliffs: low pressures provide lift for the warm air to condense and fuel rain/storms.
This post was edited on 4/26/16 at 2:19 pm
Posted by dewster
Chicago
Member since Aug 2006
26627 posts
Posted on 4/26/16 at 2:18 pm to
quote:

Think of the dew point as a measure of water vapor in the air. Water vapor is lighter than the nitrogen and oxygen that makes up the majority of our air, so it is more buoyant; therefore, more readily rises.

Water also has a very high latent heat of vaporization, which is just a measure of the extra energy water picks up when it goes from liquid to gas. When it cools as it rises, the water vapor turns into a liquid and releases that energy as heat. Which in turn warms the air around it, and the warm air rises.

Thus you have more rapid updrafts and when you get them spinning...you get tornados. It'll be easier if you're from the coast to think of a hurricane. The warm water puts more vapor in the atmosphere. The hurricane picks it up and condenses it, increasing the driving force to raise it up.


Thanks.

I guess it's bad dew points are at or very close to the already stuffy air temperature in much of northern Texas, Oklahoma, and central Kansas now.
This post was edited on 4/26/16 at 2:19 pm
Posted by rt3
now in the piney woods of Pineville
Member since Apr 2011
148006 posts
Posted on 4/26/16 at 2:19 pm to
quote:

The rightward jog of the line just above the surface shows the warmer air above that "caps" the storms from rising.

perhaps I dreamed this... but I swore 1 of TWC peeps said the "cap" was going to dissipate later in the afternoon/evening and that would open up some tornado potential
Posted by Duke
Dillon, CO
Member since Jan 2008
36494 posts
Posted on 4/26/16 at 2:20 pm to
quote:

I guess it's bad dew points are at or very close to the air temperature in much of northern Texas, Oklahoma, and central Kansas now.


You guess correctly.

The dew point can't be higher than the air temperature. When it's the same, we call that 100% humidity. Basically, it's the upper limit on how much water vapor the air can hold.
Posted by jlu03
San Diego
Member since Jul 2012
3362 posts
Posted on 4/26/16 at 2:22 pm to
I tend to watch TVN storm chasing during severe weather outbreaks and there are usually 5 - 10 chasers streaming live video or offline waiting to stream live. Right now there are over 50 chasers between OK and KS who are streaming or about to stream. Doesn't look good.
Posted by DoUrden
UnderDark
Member since Oct 2011
26320 posts
Posted on 4/26/16 at 2:22 pm to
Looks like we are starting to see some development along the OK/KS line, 1st watch/warning just went up.

LINK
This post was edited on 4/26/16 at 2:23 pm
Posted by Duke
Dillon, CO
Member since Jan 2008
36494 posts
Posted on 4/26/16 at 2:22 pm to
quote:

perhaps I dreamed this... but I swore 1 of TWC peeps said the "cap" was going to dissipate later in the afternoon/evening and that would open up some tornado potential



You heard correctly. Im showing the cap to somewhat explain why the storms are going to be later in the evening.
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