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Posted on 4/9/20 at 12:05 pm to Scruffy
Is anyone really going to try to convince themselves that the Catholic Church is non profit? Or any other major religions? And I’ve seen the dry cleaning that these pastors bring in every week, thousands and thousands of dollars worth of suits and dresses for their wives, pulling up in their Yukon’s. Non profit is total bullshite. Any church that is non profit is simply a failing church and will be closed soon.
Posted on 4/9/20 at 12:08 pm to castorinho
quote:
The B in SBA stands for BUSINESS, correct?
Just want to make sure we're clear on that
There are a lot of people who freak out about "church". You should think of this from any non-profit organization standpoint.
Posted on 4/9/20 at 12:08 pm to Scruffy
quote:
They should not be eligible.
Why should a non-profit be ineligible.
Posted on 4/9/20 at 12:09 pm to Bengalbio
Yea I don’t think churches should be eligible either. The church I attend announced in their stream last week they were applying for some sort of government assistance and i wasn’t a fan.
Posted on 4/9/20 at 12:09 pm to BigB0882
quote:
Non profit is total bullshite. Any church that is non profit is simply a failing church and will be closed soon.
You understand non-profit doesn’t mean no profit, right?
Posted on 4/9/20 at 12:10 pm to Pedro
quote:
The church I attend announced in their stream last week they were applying for some sort of government assistance and i wasn’t a fan.
Money from the government always comes with strings.
Posted on 4/9/20 at 12:12 pm to BigB0882
quote:non-profit, in the context of this thread, is referring to a certain tax status under the IRS code. Your post doesn't really make sense here. Additionally, the primary loan referenced in the OP, is based on payroll and designed to keep people employed over the next few months regardless of whether those people work for a not for profit or a for profit entity.
Is anyone really going to try to convince themselves that the Catholic Church is non profit? Or any other major religions? And I’ve seen the dry cleaning that these pastors bring in every week, thousands and thousands of dollars worth of suits and dresses for their wives, pulling up in their Yukon’s. Non profit is total bullshite. Any church that is non profit is simply a failing church and will be closed soon
Posted on 4/9/20 at 12:16 pm to moneyg
quote:
There are a lot of people who freak out about "church". You should think of this from any non-profit organization standpoint.
Our nonprofits are required to file for their exemptions, and follow certain rules, and our churches are not required to do the same.
Do you not see the hypocrisy of an organization that screams for the government to stay out of their business now wanting a handout from that same government?
Posted on 4/9/20 at 12:16 pm to Bengalbio
Upvoted for recognizing this is not a simple situation.
This is a chance for religions, all of them, to score lots of points with future recruits and help out with moral ground positioning in the long term. Whether or not this was the correct policy will remain to be seen. As at stands, I hope they step-up and use this window of opportunity the right way.
This is a chance for religions, all of them, to score lots of points with future recruits and help out with moral ground positioning in the long term. Whether or not this was the correct policy will remain to be seen. As at stands, I hope they step-up and use this window of opportunity the right way.
Posted on 4/9/20 at 12:21 pm to castorinho
quote:
churches
The B in SBA stands for BUSINESS, correct?
Just want to make sure we're clear on that
So. Churches and the like have debits and credits.
It is a business by every definition.
Posted on 4/9/20 at 12:21 pm to TSLG
quote:You understand though that the purpose of these "handouts" is to keep individuals on payrolls because the government has shut down the economy and didn't stay out of their business. So, the hypocrisy doesn't really apply here.
Do you not see the hypocrisy of an organization that screams for the government to stay out of their business now wanting a handout from that same government?
This post was edited on 4/9/20 at 12:24 pm
Posted on 4/9/20 at 12:23 pm to lsusa
quote:
They own multiple rental properties, sell cars, run daycares, offer tax preparation services and so forth.
But are they charging market rate, or are they doing it pro bono / sliding scale based on income?
This post was edited on 1/29/21 at 8:16 pm
Posted on 4/9/20 at 12:30 pm to TheDeathValley
quote:
Small BUSINESS association. Don't act like these mega-churches are not "for profit" with millionaire clergy flying around in private jets living in multi-million dollar mansions.
Because one does it, they all do it? They have plenty of crooked businesses out there as well.
Most church congregations decide how much the preacher is paid. Not the preacher himself. When you see preachers in private jets, it’s usually profits from something they are selling. Not their church payroll income.
Posted on 4/9/20 at 12:34 pm to BigB0882
quote:
Is anyone really going to try to convince themselves that the Catholic Church is non profit? Or any other major religions? And I’ve seen the dry cleaning that these pastors bring in every week, thousands and thousands of dollars worth of suits and dresses for their wives, pulling up in their Yukon’s. Non profit is total bullshite. Any church that is non profit is simply a failing church and will be closed soon.
Look, and I imagine the CEOs of the Red Cross and other large non-profits are doing the same.
Posted on 4/9/20 at 12:38 pm to Golfer
quote:
You understand non-profit doesn’t mean no profit, right?
This.
Here is how I explain it.
Non-profit simply means there no shareholders for which equity can accrue to for their personal benefit.
That's it.
To the extent CEOs/pastors are pulling out millions of dollars of "profits" in the form of "salaries", they are being taxed on that on an individual level.
The shenanigans (both in real non-profits and churches) come out in how much of "personal" expense is being run through the non-profit/church books, and not being reported as compensation to the individual.
We could probably also look at property tax exemptions, lots of gray area there.
Posted on 4/9/20 at 12:42 pm to PearlJam
quote:
You understand though that the purpose of these "handouts" is to keep individuals on payrolls because the government has shut down the economy and didn't stay out of their business. So, the hypocrisy doesn't really apply here.
I'd say that the hypocrisy still applies, but they might would be reasonable in their hypocrisy.
Did you do any research on the foia exceptions in our last discussion?
quote:
Information “required” to be submitted is considered confidential if: i. Disclosure would diminish the "reliability" or "quality" of what is submitted to the government; or ii. Release would cause substantial harm to the competitive position of the person from whom the information was obtained. Executive Order 12600 requires you to provide predisclosure notification to the submitter. See chapter 5. You must look at the facts and circumstances of each individual case and not make class determinations of confidentiality.
What argument would a church make that release would substantially harm their competitive position?
"Our customers might go to another church if they find out that we are wasting tf out of the money"?
Posted on 4/9/20 at 12:45 pm to TSLG
quote:No need. The loans are being processed through banks. SBA doesn't collect that information. They aren't going to provide confidential information from every business applying for these loans pursuant to FOIA requests.
Did you do any research on the foia exceptions in our last discussion?
quote:The money has to be used for certain purposes to have the loan forgiven. This simply doesn't make sense in the particular context.
Our customers might go to another church if they find out that we are wasting tf out of the money"?
This post was edited on 4/9/20 at 12:47 pm
Posted on 4/9/20 at 12:46 pm to LSUFanHouston
quote:
The shenanigans (both in real non-profits and churches) come out in how much of "personal" expense is being run through the non-profit/church books, and not being reported as compensation to the individual.
We could probably also look at property tax exemptions, lots of gray area there.
Ive been on the benefit side of these shenanigans. Church property is used for personal benefit A LOT.
Posted on 4/9/20 at 12:55 pm to PearlJam
quote:
No need. The loans are being processed through banks. SBA doesn't collect that information. They aren't going to provide confidential information from every business applying for these loans pursuant to FOIA requests.
What do you do? Do you know what tf you are talking about, or are you just pulling reasonable sounding shite out of your arse?
I'm not trying to be an a-hole; I'm just trying to decide the credibility of your unsupported statements.
This is a novel issue. Their exemptions were written specifically with businesses in mind. These same exemptions might not apply the same when it comes to a non profit or church.
I'm simply asking are you simply a reasonable, sharp guy, with very little knowledge about this particular topic, or are you in a position to have specific knowledge about sba loans, foia requests, etc?
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