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re: Robert E. Lee's lines collapsed at Petersburg on this date 157 years ago...
Posted on 4/3/22 at 12:58 pm to White Bear
Posted on 4/3/22 at 12:58 pm to White Bear
(Robert E. Lee's lines collapsed at Petersburg on this date 157 years ago...)
"All glory is fleeting" ~ George S. Patton (and that includes ALL 157 year-old "glory" claimed by associative the blood, sacrifice and honor.)
WB: Thanks for standing on truth of the matter -- your PROVEN point is STILL not addressed.
(And go into the sh*tter, WE DID GO, c.2022)
TO ALL:
What did the "victory" of "The Union" by unconstitutional authority and coercion achieve?
After 1865 the United States of America lost ALL States' Rights sovereignty -- PERSONAL as well as provincial sovereignty; the "USA Inc" became a Corporation in 1871 (go ahead baws -- look it up); the bankers swooped in while BOTH sides' bodies were still warm as the current Global-Shadow Govt dug its heels in, usurping the authority of We The People. They shredded the USCON and created a gargantuan Centralized Feral Gummint & bureaucracy that has vandalize our currency, freedom, identity AND heritage since.
"GIs" -- short for, "Gummint-Issued" was truth in advertising; We became property, chattel -- NOT "citizenry"; fighting wars on behalf intentional bankers, blueblood elites, and the same Luciferian Global Governance WE SEE RUNNING THE SH*T-SHOW TODAY (since 1917 -- and some say, since CW1). NONE OF OUR PAST NATIONAL "HISTORY" HAS BEEN A COINCIDENCE.
REAL "History" for honest historians who document the entire cloth of the past will NOT speak kindly of The Truth -- yes, even of Late, Great USA (as we knew it as our best).
Fact: Our "history" is already changing on a dime as we speak. Historical architecture has constantly been razed for over 100 years -- and recently tPTB are having out Statues torn down -- a past heritage replaced by ugly buildings and statues of iconic subversives, George Floyd, Satan/Baphomet, and other "markings" of the Conquerors/Unveiled Overlords.
quote:
...And things have been going to shite ever since
"All glory is fleeting" ~ George S. Patton (and that includes ALL 157 year-old "glory" claimed by associative the blood, sacrifice and honor.)
WB: Thanks for standing on truth of the matter -- your PROVEN point is STILL not addressed.
(And go into the sh*tter, WE DID GO, c.2022)
TO ALL:
What did the "victory" of "The Union" by unconstitutional authority and coercion achieve?
After 1865 the United States of America lost ALL States' Rights sovereignty -- PERSONAL as well as provincial sovereignty; the "USA Inc" became a Corporation in 1871 (go ahead baws -- look it up); the bankers swooped in while BOTH sides' bodies were still warm as the current Global-Shadow Govt dug its heels in, usurping the authority of We The People. They shredded the USCON and created a gargantuan Centralized Feral Gummint & bureaucracy that has vandalize our currency, freedom, identity AND heritage since.
"GIs" -- short for, "Gummint-Issued" was truth in advertising; We became property, chattel -- NOT "citizenry"; fighting wars on behalf intentional bankers, blueblood elites, and the same Luciferian Global Governance WE SEE RUNNING THE SH*T-SHOW TODAY (since 1917 -- and some say, since CW1). NONE OF OUR PAST NATIONAL "HISTORY" HAS BEEN A COINCIDENCE.
REAL "History" for honest historians who document the entire cloth of the past will NOT speak kindly of The Truth -- yes, even of Late, Great USA (as we knew it as our best).
Fact: Our "history" is already changing on a dime as we speak. Historical architecture has constantly been razed for over 100 years -- and recently tPTB are having out Statues torn down -- a past heritage replaced by ugly buildings and statues of iconic subversives, George Floyd, Satan/Baphomet, and other "markings" of the Conquerors/Unveiled Overlords.
This post was edited on 4/3/22 at 12:59 pm
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Posted on 4/3/22 at 1:17 pm to Liberator
quote:
All I am doing is holding up mirror to all the baws who actually believe something (good) was "won" or gained.
I’d say the ending of legal slavery in this country was a net gain, but that’s just me.
Posted on 4/3/22 at 1:19 pm to The Spleen
you would think so
Posted on 4/3/22 at 1:23 pm to RollTide1987
If you want to know everything about the Overland Campaign check out Gordon Rhea's treatment in 4 books from the Wilderness to Petersburg. Well written, great maps and rosters of the units that fought these battles.
If you are a fan of US Grant be prepared to read some truth that has been varnished over with time.
If you are a fan of US Grant be prepared to read some truth that has been varnished over with time.
Posted on 4/3/22 at 1:24 pm to RollTide1987
Petersburg was the real end for the CSA— the dash to Appomattox was at best an attempted delaying action. “The eyes of the south are upon you” RE Lee told his men.
Posted on 4/3/22 at 1:28 pm to Salviati
quote:
Traitors become a lot more friendly after they get their asses kicked.
Watching ignorant fools such as yourself wallow and revel in your own historical ignorance reminds me of why this country and society have gone to complete shite in the past 157 years.
Posted on 4/3/22 at 1:33 pm to RollTide1987
quote:and such, their traitorous cause started its inevitable fall
Robert E. Lee's lines collapsed at Petersburg on this date 157 years ago...
Posted on 4/3/22 at 1:55 pm to WestCoastAg
quote:
and such, their traitorous cause started its inevitable fall
Let’s discuss the whole “traitor” angle. You say the Confederates were traitors because they wanted to leave the Union and create their own country. Is that right? I know you’re not calling them traitors because they wanted to overthrow the government in Washington. Anyone who has even a passing knowledge of the Civil War knows this was never an aim of the South; they merely wanted to leave and go their own way. Thus, by your estimation it is the act of wanting to leave the Union that made them traitors. Is that a fair statement? I’ll assume this is the case.
Now that we have established the fact you consider Confederates “traitors” for wanting to leave the Union, I now ask you to point out for me what article of the constitution as it was configured in 1861 forbade secession? Can you do that? I’ve studied the constitution for decades and have never found anything forbidding secession in 1861. I have however found numerous examples of the government in Washington D.C. violating multiple parts of the Constitution.
If we go by the constitutional standard, by which I mean anyone claiming to be a patriot should considering the fact the oath we all take in service of our country says nothing of defending the government but instead requires we swear to defend the constitution, thus our loyalty should not lay with whoever is in power in Washington D.C., but rather the Constitution. Thus, it’s far easier to say the traitors of 1881-65 were not the Confederates but rather those in power in Washington D.C. The Confederates never violated the constitution. Those in D.C shite all over it and have continued to do so in an ever increasing manner for the subsequent 157 years.
Posted on 4/3/22 at 2:03 pm to The Spleen
quote:
I’d say the ending of legal slavery in this country was a net gain, but that’s just me.
Thanks for weighing in.
Respect.
This post was edited on 4/3/22 at 2:54 pm
Posted on 4/3/22 at 2:15 pm to Lakeboy7
quote:
If you are a fan of US Grant be prepared to read some truth that has been varnished over with time.
If anything, I think it's been overly exaggerated.
I am currently reading those very books right now and am about 100 or so pages into the third volume. I feel like Rhea is being overly critical of Grant in places but by and large it's a fair and balanced account of the campaign thus far.
Posted on 4/3/22 at 2:19 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
reading those very books right now
I honestly dont think people understand how many union soldiers died that final year. Enjoy the books best read on a subject that somehow was neglected.
Posted on 4/3/22 at 2:45 pm to saintsfan92612
quote:
(Legal ending to slavery was a net gain) you would think so
Sure. IF "slavery" was indeed the big CW1 issue (instead of Lincoln's indifference either way).
The belated (public) truth of course was that for Lincoln and those conscripted / fighting for The Union -- "Slavery" wasn't any actual "hot" issue. But it made Lincoln an icon of American Freedom. I even STILL remember our ode to Lincoln sang in first grade. (WAS THAT TRUE? As well as, "Honest Abe"?)
"Slavery is now GONE!!" -- IF this is accepted and conceded as THE major "net gain" that justified CW's 600,000 deaths, there were still several other additional far-arching important and under-investigated issues and factors in the aftermath. (The narrative distills it simply as, "Union vs. Confederacy made the Emancipation Proclamation possible. That made it all worth while.
That -- as well as all American "History" and narrative -- is so poorly neglected, ignored, dismissed and overlooked (by design). CW still affects this nation -- if not economically, still emotionally (look at some of the reactions in this thread).
/ DONE
Posted on 4/3/22 at 2:50 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
Now that we have established the fact you consider Confederates “traitors” for wanting to leave the Union, I now ask you to point out for me what article of the constitution as it was configured in 1861 forbade secession? Can you do that? I’ve studied the constitution for decades and have never found anything forbidding secession in 1861.
I have however found numerous examples of the government in Washington D.C. violating multiple parts of the Constitution.
An examination of the situation that bears repeating.
Posted on 4/3/22 at 2:50 pm to Wolfhound45
Cold Harbor and the Wilderness are just brutal as well. I consider that all part of the same operation. Others disagree but from that point on Grant and Lee engage in almost non stop fighting. There is some stoppage of course, but it's all part of Grant's overall strategy.
Posted on 4/3/22 at 2:59 pm to RollTide1987
Gotta tell ya, Tide, I do enjoy these Civil War posts. Appomattox is coming up.
Posted on 4/3/22 at 3:15 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
Robert E. Lee's lines collapsed at Petersburg
Lol, what a loser
Posted on 4/3/22 at 3:21 pm to RollTide1987
War is brutal and both Grant and Lee have to be victims of the circumstances. Beginning in May 1864 Grant realizes that he has to find a way to keep Lee in the field and have him exhaust his resources. Prior to that Union commanders would allow Lee the "courtesy" to withdraw.and give both sides a rest. Grant realizes that Lee cannot withstand prolonged assault and that he can wear him down.
Grant has the advantage. He has the manpower, he has the supplies and material. He has control of the coasts. Not only can he get supplied by rail, but he is being supplied by boat as well. Lee does not have that luxury. He has Southern VA and North Carolina and that's it. To the west he has Union controlled territory. In South Carolina he has Sherman wrecking shop.
By April of 1865 all Lee has to rely on is a supply train moving in that the Union will intercept and moves into checkmate with Gibbon 's corps and the Union cavalry blocking any possible escape. Allowing himself to play the seige game at Petersburg is a critical mistake. The Confederate army is not designed to withstand a seige.
Grant has the advantage. He has the manpower, he has the supplies and material. He has control of the coasts. Not only can he get supplied by rail, but he is being supplied by boat as well. Lee does not have that luxury. He has Southern VA and North Carolina and that's it. To the west he has Union controlled territory. In South Carolina he has Sherman wrecking shop.
By April of 1865 all Lee has to rely on is a supply train moving in that the Union will intercept and moves into checkmate with Gibbon 's corps and the Union cavalry blocking any possible escape. Allowing himself to play the seige game at Petersburg is a critical mistake. The Confederate army is not designed to withstand a seige.
Posted on 4/3/22 at 3:23 pm to RollTide1987
Serious infrastructure problems there.
Posted on 4/3/22 at 3:50 pm to saintsfan92612
Those "losers" had more honor and integrity than you will ever have.
Posted on 4/3/22 at 4:18 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
Watching ignorant fools such as yourself wallow and revel in your own historical ignorance reminds me of why this country and society have gone to complete shite in the past 157 years.
quote:The Union is much older than the Constitution. It was formed, in fact, by the Articles of Association in 1774. It was matured and continued by the Declaration of Independence in 1776. It was further matured, and the faith of all the then thirteen States expressly plighted and engaged that it should be perpetual, by the Articles of Confederation and Perpetual Union in 1778:
Now that we have established the fact you consider Confederates “traitors” for wanting to leave the Union, I now ask you to point out for me what article of the constitution as it was configured in 1861 forbade secession? Can you do that?
quote:In 1787, one of the declared objects for ordaining and establishing the Constitution, technically an amendment of the perpetual Articles, was to form a more perfect Union:
To all to whom these Presents shall come, we, the undersigned Delegates of the States affixed to our Names send greeting. Whereas the Delegates of the United States of America in Congress assembled did on the fifteenth day of November in the year of our Lord One Thousand Seven Hundred and Seventy seven, and in the Second Year of the Independence of America agree to certain Articles of Confederation and Perpetual Union between the States of New Hampshire, Massachusetts-bay, Rhode Island and Providence Plantations, Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, and Georgia in the Words following, viz. “Articles of Confederation and Perpetual Union between the States of New Hampshire, Massachusetts-bay, Rhode Island and Providence Plantations, Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, and Georgia.
* * *
Article XIII. Every State shall abide by the determinations of the United States, in congress assembled, on all questions which by this confederation are submitted to them. And the Articles of this confederation shall be inviolably observed by every state, and the union shall be perpetual; nor shall any alteration at any time hereafter be made in any of them, unless such alteration be agreed to in a congress of the united states, and be afterwards con-firmed by the legislatures of every state.
And Whereas it hath pleased the Great Governor of the World to incline the hearts of the legislatures we respectively represent in congress, to approve of, and to authorize us to ratify the said Articles of Confederation and Perpetual Union, Know Ye, that we, the undersigned delegates, by virtue of the power and authority to us given for that purpose, do, by these presents, in the name and in behalf of our respective constituents, fully and entirely ratify and confirm each and every of the said Articles of Confederation and Perpetual Union, and all and singular the matters and things therein contained. And we do further solemnly plight and engage the faith of our respective constituents, that they shall abide by the determinations of the United States in congress assembled, on all questions, which by the said confederation are submitted to them. And that the articles thereof shall be inviolably observed by the states we respectively represent, and that the union shall be perpetual. In Witness whereof, we have hereunto set our hands, in Congress. Done at Philadelphia, in the State of Pennsylvania, the ninth Day of July, in the Year of our Lord one Thousand seven Hundred and Seventy eight, and in the third year of the Independence of America.
quote:There is no Constitutional right to secede. Supreme Court Justices from Chase to Scalia and the founding fathers confirm that there is no right to secede. In a 1788 letter to Alexander Hamilton, James Madison stated:
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
quote:Hamilton and John Jay agreed with Madison's view, reserving "a right to withdraw [was] inconsistent with the Constitution.” In his first inaugural address, George Washington referred to the country as an “indissoluble union.”
My opinion is that a reservation of a right to withdraw . . . is a conditional ratification . . . Compacts must be reciprocal . . . The Constitution requires an adoption in toto, and for ever.
Although secession is not permitted by the Constitution, there is a method to leave the Union. That method is spelled out in Article Five.
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