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Started By
Message
re: Reminder of exactly what the signers and founders of this nation were putting on the line.
Posted on 7/4/23 at 10:53 am to High C
Posted on 7/4/23 at 10:53 am to High C
quote:Sure, some were. You have to have "believers" on board to make anything work. Just like you have to have doctors who believe the jab works in order to implement a worldwide "vaccination."
Listen, bub, it could all be rationalized as propaganda by definition. Does that mean that the writers of these documents weren’t serious about what they were saying?
quote:We have a "Deep State" running our system. I guess my question is, how far back does that go? All the way to the beginning? before that, even?
“Common Sense” and “The American Crisis” were straight up propaganda, and they were very effective at furthering (disagree if you will) a just cause.
This country was set up for the benefit of rich, white men. Was that a just cause?
Look, I'm incredibly grateful for where I live and what I have. But this Pollyanna attitude towards our founding borders on sickening. Let's put on our big boy pants and realize that government is not on our side; it never was; it never will be. Yes, we're fortunate to have what we have, and as I've already said, I'm grateful.
But c'mon man, the slobbering over our founding fathers is as counterproductive as the cult of Trump or the mindless Obamabots. They aren't on "our" side. They're on "their" side. Yes, we're fortunate to reap certain benefits from it, but that's never been the aim, and never will be.
3
Posted on 7/4/23 at 11:07 am to TX Tiger
quote:
But c'mon man, the slobbering over our founding fathers is as counterproductive as the cult of Trump or the mindless Obamabots. They aren't on "our" side. They're on "their" side. Yes, we're fortunate to reap certain benefits from it, but that's never been the aim, and never will be.
I respectfully disagree strongly. Was anything they did self-serving? Of course, they were human. You suggest that everything they did was self-serving. Jefferson knew and understood that “all men are created equal” was a fantasy in 1776, but I believe he included it because he (and most of the others) believed in the ideal, the possibility, something to aspire to. I don’t think it’s debatable that we are much closer to that ideal in 2023 than we were in 1776. The Teedy quote in the other thread, along with the actions of the race and gender grifters, are just to create a victimhood that they will never release.
Posted on 7/4/23 at 11:15 am to VirgilCaine
quote:
slavery was abolished in this country.
and i said as much, giving credit to those, even on that lists of names, that did end up as abolitionist...
quote:
want to tear down the founders, and their perceived motivations, why?
i KNOW you aren't insinuating that's what my post was doing, b/c if so you are completely wrong... i even stated as much... i'm not debating whether or not these men were "good or bad" due to the FACT that they owned slaves... that's a whole different conversation...
i would ask another, similar question, however of those that who constantly want to conveniently omit facts, in order to further deify the Founding Fathers, and to engage in revisionist history, why?
again, i'm not making any assessment as to the morality of these men... i'm plainly stating that there is historical, factual evidence to the contrary of what that one poster said in his one post...
perhaps you should stop viewing so politically motivated...
Posted on 7/4/23 at 11:19 am to grizzlylongcut
quote:
We need more men like those.
America as they knew and envisioned it is gone.
Posted on 7/4/23 at 11:19 am to tilthatday
quote:
So here’s the next question. Where on this planet is the black man better off? Where is his native genius, incredible industry and ability to benefit society more widely recognized?
Is it his native Africa? Asia? The Middle East? Or is it Europe, which is now being torn apart by immigration and racism?
Is there any civilized country that thinks its problems can be solved by more blacks? Is there any society on earth made more cohesive by the addition of diversity“?
Be humble and count your blessings
are you arguing that slavery was a good thing?
Posted on 7/4/23 at 11:25 am to chRxis
quote:Many people are petrified....PETRIFIED to question their own beliefs. Not sure what they're so afraid of?...The truth?
i would ask another, similar question, however of those that who constantly want to conveniently omit facts, in order to further deify the Founding Fathers, and to engage in revisionist history, why?
Seems like that should be what people strive for rather than run from.
Posted on 7/4/23 at 11:27 am to kywildcatfanone
quote:Or was it just a fairy tale from the beginning?
We need more men like those.
America as they knew and envisioned it is gone.
Posted on 7/4/23 at 11:27 am to chRxis
Consider the law of unintended consequences and decide for yourself.
Posted on 7/4/23 at 11:51 am to chRxis
quote:
i'm not arguing the "right or wrong" of it, i think we all know what side the ledger slavery falls on... i'm just pointing out that with all of the historical evidence we have, it's pretty easy to conclude what the Founders "believed", as it pertained who they were intending that "freedom" for... now, to their credit, some of the names above did end up releasing their slaves, and some of them even became abolitionist but the fact remains that, at some point, they did own another human being for their enrichment or benefit
You fricking people are insufferable. Let’s do a purity test for all historical figures then. I’m not sure you want to go down this road.
This post was edited on 7/4/23 at 12:03 pm
Posted on 7/4/23 at 12:01 pm to TX Tiger
quote:
Yes, we're fortunate to have what we have, and as I've already said, I'm grateful.
You’re not, though. You come off as very flippant over this nation’s history.
Posted on 7/4/23 at 12:16 pm to grizzlylongcut
quote:Our nation's history? Are you serious?
Yes, we're fortunate to have what we have, and as I've already said, I'm grateful.
You’re not, though. You come off as very flippant over this nation’s history.
Our nation's history includes the murdering of millions upon millions of innocent human beings for the sole purpose of lining the pockets of the elite.
Hell, we just spent 20-plus years in the Middle East murdering millions of innocent people over there to prop up the Petro Dollar. While we were at it, we funded and armed the genocide of an entire nation (Yemen).
Are you saying I should be proud of that? What's wrong with you?
Posted on 7/4/23 at 12:19 pm to TX Tiger
You’re so edgy bro.
Posted on 7/4/23 at 12:19 pm to TX Tiger
Ok, what other country would you rather us model after?
Posted on 7/4/23 at 12:24 pm to grizzlylongcut
quote:None. Governments serve the elite at the expense of the rest of us. That was the point. Stop slobbering over government. You sound like a prog.
Ok, what other country would you rather us model after?
Posted on 7/4/23 at 12:26 pm to TX Tiger
Ok buddy, just be careful you don’t cut yourself with that edge.
Posted on 7/4/23 at 1:43 pm to TX Tiger
quote:
But c'mon man, the slobbering over our founding fathers is as counterproductive as the cult of Trump or the mindless Obamabots. They aren't on "our" side. They're on "their" side. Yes, we're fortunate to reap certain benefits from it, but that's never been the aim, and never will be.
Did you even read the first post in this thread? The founding fathers risked everything they had for an ideal. They personally had nothing to gain and everything to lose, and many of them did lose everything. The most astounding part of our founding is that these men who were personally benefitting from the existing system, i.e. being part of Britain, were willing to give up those benefits for the ideals of a new creation in human history. That is what makes them so deserving of honor and reverence.
Posted on 7/4/23 at 2:56 pm to grizzlylongcut
We’ve traded John Hancocks for Jake Pauls
Posted on 7/4/23 at 3:14 pm to grizzlylongcut
quote:
You fricking people are insufferable.
why, because differ? i don't consider you an enemy, or dispicable, or insufferable... you just have a different point of view and ideology... it's ok... the sun will still come up tomorrow, the world is still gonna turn... get over yourself, chief
quote:
Let’s do a purity test for all historical figures then
why? i wasn't questioning the "purity" of any of the people listed... i'm just point out the fact that they own slaves.... you can make your own assessment whether that was good or bad, but that's not what i was replying to in your post... again, not everything is political, nor politically motivated... it's just historical fact, and i'm just pointing that out to contend the statement you made... it's all good bro, chill out
quote:nope, sure don't.... my reply didn't insinuate that i wanted, or was trying to, go down that road in the first place
I’m not sure you want to go down this road.
Posted on 7/4/23 at 3:30 pm to TX Tiger
quote:
None. Governments serve the elite at the expense of the rest of us. That was the point. Stop slobbering over government. You sound like a prog.
You’ve conveniently hopped from the founders to “government.” They are not the same. As a matter of fact, the founders accomplished most of what they did in the absence of a formal government. If you want to go back prior to the Declaration, the government was something they wanted to throw off. The Constitution intentionally provides very well thought out provisions to greatly limit the power of the government. Those provisions are the things that today’s American government is trying very hard to circumvent.
ETA before he edits:
quote:
slobbering over our founding fathers
quote:
slobbering over government
This post was edited on 7/4/23 at 3:58 pm
Posted on 7/4/23 at 4:07 pm to Richard Grayson
quote:or filming triggered ticker tocker videos in the Target kids clothing section for likesquote:
Where are our Jeffersons? Where are our Washingtons? Where are our Adams? Where are our Hancocks?
Contemplating the first steps to a convention of states.
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