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Question for Family practice lawyers
Posted on 9/8/22 at 2:28 pm
Posted on 9/8/22 at 2:28 pm
My dad passed on June 2, 2022. He owned a few rental properties. His will has the primary residence going to mom and the investment properties going to a Trust with his grandkids as beneficiaries.
My mother is convinced she can sell the investment properties and use the money until she passes before passing it down. She is designated as the Usufruct. She believes that will give her exclusive rights to do what she wants.
My kids and my niece and nephews could care less as do I. I don't think she is correct. I think she can continue to pull rental income from the properties and use them as she wishes but she is not able to pull the assets out of the trust.
Anyone here been through this with Trust and the role as Usufruct?
My mother is convinced she can sell the investment properties and use the money until she passes before passing it down. She is designated as the Usufruct. She believes that will give her exclusive rights to do what she wants.
My kids and my niece and nephews could care less as do I. I don't think she is correct. I think she can continue to pull rental income from the properties and use them as she wishes but she is not able to pull the assets out of the trust.
Anyone here been through this with Trust and the role as Usufruct?
16
Posted on 9/8/22 at 2:31 pm to ShermanTxTiger
to sell the property would require the signature of all the trustees regardless of her having usufruct or not.
Posted on 9/8/22 at 2:31 pm to ShermanTxTiger
She can do pretty much anything EXCEPT sell the properties.
Posted on 9/8/22 at 8:20 pm to ShermanTxTiger
It depends upon what the will says but it likely gives her the power to sell and then she has use of cash as she wishes.
Posted on 9/8/22 at 8:22 pm to ShermanTxTiger
quote:I hope you lose every fricking penny you have
My kids and my niece and nephews could care less
Posted on 9/8/22 at 9:00 pm to ShermanTxTiger
Unless the usufructuary was specifically granted the right to sell the home without the consent of the naked owner, the usufructuary may not sell the home without the naked owner's consent.
This right to sell by the usufruct without consent of the naked owner can be granted or restricted in someone's will.
I’m not a lawyer but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
This right to sell by the usufruct without consent of the naked owner can be granted or restricted in someone's will.
I’m not a lawyer but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
Posted on 9/8/22 at 9:05 pm to ShermanTxTiger
quote:can’t
Usufruct
quote:
sell the investment properties
Posted on 9/8/22 at 9:12 pm to ShermanTxTiger
This is where I seek legal advice as well
Posted on 9/8/22 at 9:50 pm to ShermanTxTiger
Usus = right to use
Fructus = right to the fruits
Abusus = right to alienate or destroy
Guess which rights a usufruct has, and which it doesn’t.
Fructus = right to the fruits
Abusus = right to alienate or destroy
Guess which rights a usufruct has, and which it doesn’t.
Posted on 9/8/22 at 9:54 pm to zuluboudreaux
quote:pics
the naked owner,
Posted on 9/8/22 at 10:02 pm to ShermanTxTiger
How much are the properties vs house worth and were they still married and for how long.
Most states have a sliding scale up to 50% of all assets no matter what the will says.
If the rentals are worth 10 million and the house is worth 50k and they were married for 15 years... then the will and trust gets thrown right out here until made whole on 50%.
Most states have a sliding scale up to 50% of all assets no matter what the will says.
If the rentals are worth 10 million and the house is worth 50k and they were married for 15 years... then the will and trust gets thrown right out here until made whole on 50%.
This post was edited on 9/8/22 at 10:03 pm
Posted on 9/8/22 at 10:07 pm to ShermanTxTiger
It ain’t a hobby
Posted on 9/8/22 at 10:10 pm to ShermanTxTiger
there was a girl I usufruct, she cut me off when she married Jody
Posted on 9/8/22 at 10:37 pm to LSU2346
The usufruct does not give her the right to sell real estate unless it is specifically granted in the will. If she just has a normal usufruct, she can't sell the properties without the permission of the other owners. If the properties do get sold the usufruct attaches to the proceeds. The usufruct over money includes the right to spend the money. Your mother's estate would have to account for it after her death, but by then it would be someone else's problem.
This post was edited on 9/8/22 at 10:46 pm
Posted on 9/8/22 at 10:37 pm to ShermanTxTiger
So, assuming the investment properties are community property (acquired during the marriage with community assets, aka his martial earnings), then she owns 50% of the investment properties outright. It’s just his 50% interest that she has a usufruct. In that 50% she only has the rights to use those properties and reap the fruits (income) of those properties but can’t sell.
Thus, under LA property law she owns the property in indivision with the grandkids and has a Usufruct over their share. As an owner indivision she can force a sale requesting partition.
Thus, under LA property law she owns the property in indivision with the grandkids and has a Usufruct over their share. As an owner indivision she can force a sale requesting partition.
This post was edited on 9/8/22 at 10:39 pm
Posted on 9/8/22 at 10:40 pm to LSUFAITHFUL
quote:
So, assuming the investment properties are community property (acquired during the marriage with community assets, aka his martial earnings), then she owns 50% of the investment properties outright. It’s just his 50% interest that she has a usufruct. In that 50% she only has the rights to use those properties and reap the fruits (income) of those properties but can’t sell.
Thus, under LA property law she owns the property in indivision with the grandkids and has a Usufruct over their share. As an owner in indivisible she can force a sale requesting partition.
I am so glad that my parents had their shite squared away and a very specific will and executor in place before they passed
Posted on 9/8/22 at 10:56 pm to ShermanTxTiger
mom has use and fruits of the property. she can use up consumables (cars and cash). if the grant of usufruct came with the right to convert nonconsumables (house) to consumable (cash), mom can sell the property and consume the cash.
the trust owns the naked ownership. who is the trustee? if it's mom, she can sell property of the trust. then it's a consumable, and her usufruct allows her to use the cash, even if the usufruct does not allow for the conversion.
the trust owns the naked ownership. who is the trustee? if it's mom, she can sell property of the trust. then it's a consumable, and her usufruct allows her to use the cash, even if the usufruct does not allow for the conversion.
Posted on 9/8/22 at 11:00 pm to ShermanTxTiger
If your dad managed the rental properties. I can see your moms point of view. She's stuck having to maintain and keep up with these rental properties that she may not want to do, or hire a management company to do it for her. Rental properties are pain in the arse even if someone else manages them.
Posted on 9/8/22 at 11:55 pm to ShermanTxTiger
Why haven’t you asked the probate attorney? Cheap?
Is this even in Louisiana?
Is this even in Louisiana?
Posted on 9/9/22 at 12:13 am to Gris Gris
quote:
Is this even in Louisiana?
Given the use of usufruct it is almost a guarantee it is LA. It is a word I have never heard outside of LA and I am licensed in 5 states none of which are LA. Like naked owner, it is a construct of civil law. In the rest of the US with regard to estate law, it is referred to as a life estate from common law.
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