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re: Plane crash in Palm Beach County today
Posted on 11/3/26 at 6:44 pm to VernonPLSUfan
Posted on 11/3/26 at 6:44 pm to VernonPLSUfan
quote:
Not that there’s a silver lining or not, by slamming head first saved lots of lives and destruction if had been more a horizontal crash in that area.
Not like they had a choice
Posted on 11/3/26 at 7:05 pm to Btrtigerfan
Excellent clip and shows how inept some of the ATC staff are.
ATC routing approval doesn't override the captains judgement and need to reroute for severe weather.
ATC routing approval doesn't override the captains judgement and need to reroute for severe weather.
Posted on 11/3/26 at 7:18 pm to The Pirate King
Would gear down early in the dive helped at all? Or were they gear down?
Posted on 11/3/26 at 7:32 pm to White Bear
quote:
Would gear down early in the dive helped at all? Or were they gear down?
Gear at that speed probably would have just broken off. Definitely not going to give them the one thing they needed which was lift.
This post was edited on 11/3/26 at 7:33 pm
Posted on 11/3/26 at 7:38 pm to White Bear
quote:
Would gear down early in the dive helped at all? Or were they gear down?
If they were truly in an uncontrolled dive or Mach tuck, then likely no amount of gear or speed brakes thrown out would have regained control.
Those items are just not enough surface area at those altitudes and speed to make much of a difference.
There are some interesting posts earlier in this thread from a reported long time Lear pilot on the sensitivity to that particular aircraft at high altitudes.
Posted on 11/3/26 at 7:46 pm to Sam Quint
quote:
Gear at that speed probably would have just broken off.
That’s what happened when Whip Whitaker tried it in Flight.
Posted on 11/3/26 at 7:47 pm to AndyCBR
Ok so people have talked about the inherent issues with Leers and that they’re very tricky to handle and unforgiving.
So what’s the benefit of them and why people still fly them over other options?
So what’s the benefit of them and why people still fly them over other options?
Posted on 11/3/26 at 7:48 pm to AndyCBR
I had starlink on the plane recently and was amazed at how not performed streaming live tv to my phone. Would starlink allow aircraft to get better ground radar data to make better more informed decisons on routing or is the on/aircraft radar system superior to that? Sorry if it’s a dumb question as I only hav experience with old school marine radar systems and have no idea what modern air craft have access to.
Posted on 11/3/26 at 7:52 pm to Big L
I think starlink for a plane like that is $200k + $20k a month.
Posted on 11/3/26 at 7:53 pm to jlovel7
quote:
Ok so people have talked about the inherent issues with Leers and that they’re very tricky to handle and unforgiving.
So what’s the benefit of them and why people still fly them over other options?
I can't say for certain but I have to guess cost, they are older aircraft.
The last Learjet was produced in 2021 when Bombardier discontinued the product line. The last Learjet 60 was produced in 2007.
It's my understanding they do have some advantages with the "small wing" design like higher speed and good fuel mileage for that older design.
But the small wing is a tradeoff for high altitude sensitivity.
I think they are regarded as a generally serviceable aircraft but not a beginner's airplane and you have to fly them with the design limitations in mind.
Posted on 11/3/26 at 7:54 pm to White Bear
quote:
Would gear down early in the dive helped at all?
Overspeed applies to the gear as well
Posted on 11/3/26 at 8:03 pm to Big L
quote:
I had starlink on the plane recently and was amazed at how not performed streaming live tv to my phone. Would starlink allow aircraft to get better ground radar data to make better more informed decisons on routing or is the on/aircraft radar system superior to that? Sorry if it’s a dumb question as I only hav experience with old school marine radar systems and have no idea what modern air craft have access to.
I would think so for older aircraft.
But those flying older aircraft would probably not spend the coin on starlink for radar even it were available (I'm not sure even such a thing exists for sale at the moment).
I don't know for sure what avionics the Lear 60 that crashed had but it's pretty obvious they had good enough radar to know they were flying around hairy shite.
In hindsight, it was obviously a poor plan and didn't end well.
Posted on 11/3/26 at 8:40 pm to Big L
quote:
Would starlink allow aircraft to get better ground radar data to make better more informed decisons on routing or is the on/aircraft radar system superior to that?
I think that there are 2 issues with Internet based radar for planes.
1) As far as I know there are no real time web-based radars. even for National Weather Service and local TV stations that have their own radar, the image has to bee has to refresh digitized, uploaded to the web server, and then the user's device has to refresh its connection to the web server and download the new image. In my experience with NWS they are typically about 5 minutes behind with the most recent radar image.
2) Ground based weather radar systems sweep large areas, both by a 360 degree rotation and a vertical wedge of the sky by tilting the unit. It can take multiple sweeps to scan the entire height of a storm system. You can narrow that wedge down manually by limiting the tilt of the radar, but that's rare it happens. The radar on a plane scans just in front of it so it has a faster refresh rate, and, I believe, the pilots can dial in the vertical sweep of the unit so they see just what is in their immediate altitude if that's what they need to focus on, or their altitude and above, or their altitude and below.
Posted on 11/3/26 at 8:46 pm to Champagne
Posted on 11/3/26 at 9:40 pm to Kjnstkmn
That guy had zero hesitation with his emergency declaration. He didn’t mess around by first trying to convince the ATC lady to see his view of the weather that she directed him to fly through.
Posted on 11/3/26 at 10:44 pm to PJinAtl
quote:
think that there are 2 issues with Internet based radar for planes. 1) As far as I know there are no real time web-based radars. even for National Weather Service and local TV stations that have their own radar, the image has to bee has to refresh digitized, uploaded to the web server, and then the user's device has to refresh its connection to the web server and download the new image. In my experience with NWS they are typically about 5 minutes behind with the most recent radar image.
This is a good point. I’m guessing we probably don’t fund the National weather service like should. We’re too busy blowing on dumb entitlement programs and foreign bs.
Posted on 11/4/26 at 4:27 am to JudgeHolden
FWIW
Posted on 11/4/26 at 7:41 pm to JudgeHolden
quote:
FWIW
This is not good.
I'm not an aviator but it is my understanding 20 nm is the rule of thumb for severe weather avoidance.
IE they shouldn't have even been that close in the first place trying to thread the needle in that mess.
Posted on 11/4/26 at 8:46 pm to WonPercent
It was critically important for someone to expertly work the weather radar equipment to get the most accurate weather data, according to, I think it was blancolirio.
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