re: Parents of Michigan high school shooter Ethan Crumbley will go to trial, judges rule

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The parents also "provided him with high values, morals and life lessons and examples of respecting life "

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Or not

A pity

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The facts in this case as I understand them so far, to me demonstrate gross negligence manslaughter

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Yep.

This will be a slam dunk.

They deserve to rot in jail and they will.

I’m okay with this but this should be done in general. Not just to some white trash because they are white.

Like if little Tyrone who is 15 goes to a house and shoots people while they are sleeping. Charge their parents or parent.

Some stuff in article is concerning but also some just teenage drama, some admittedly not known by parents, and so forth.

Biggest thing for me is why didn’t parents go check on gun after seeing picture, check his backpack themselves, mention recent purchase (mom asked kid if he told teachers when caught looking at bullets like it wasn’t a big deal) especially if school asked about access to weapons, and why was school ok with just requiring seeing a counselor within 48 hours while returning to classes.

I think pictures should have made parents think about checking on the Sig, but School meeting seemed more focused on depression and isolation. The prior looking at bullets during class was also communicated to the mother of being an activity more appropriate for personal time and basically resolved with the kid.

Parents have issues and did some crappy things before and after shootings. No question about being held responsible in civil trials for son’s actions but not sure about criminal based on the judge’s opinions including "refused to remove him from the situation that led directly to the shootings," or “contemplating the act of gunshot wounds being inflicted upon someone”.

Parents seemed somewhat concerned about pics before the meeting at the school. They may have gotten defensive initially, but it doesn’t seem like they or school had concerns that what happened was likely to happen especially later the same day. They did seem to be looking into counseling. I think if he had started shooting in between parents seeing pics and meeting with school counselor and dean of students without securing gun or telling school he had access to one then what judges wrote would make a little more sense, but I kind of think school meeting helped delay seeing such an immediate problem on top of problem being about harming others at school. Problem with state/fed taking over for crappy parents is state/fed institutions being crappy as well.

Instead of what judges wrote if in Michigan criminal gross negligence can be proven based on them not checking on gun after seeing pics, not mentioning gun during meeting at school, and/or if school asked during meeting about access to handgun and parents withheld or lied than I can see it. It just seems like the judges (and the prosecutor) are reaching with the refusing to remove him and the harming others angles.

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“My god, WTF,” James texted Jehn when he saw the pictures.

“I’m very concerned,” Jehn wrote. She asked him to call her because she was headed to the school.

As Jehn drove, Hopkins and Ethan were having a talk. The geometry teacher wasn’t the only one who raised the alarm that morning. In first-period English, Ethan had been watching shootings on his phone; that teacher had alerted Hopkins as well…


…Hopkins declared he wanted Ethan seen by a mental-health professional — today, if possible, he said. That’s when Jehn said “no,” according to Hopkins. “Today is not possible. We have to return to work,” she said. So Hopkins said he wanted Ethan seen within 48 hours, and he would be following up. The meeting ended “abruptly,” Hopkins said.

… During cross-examination, Smith reminded Hopkins of his role as mandatory reporter. If he had felt Ethan were truly in danger, from himself or his parents, Hopkins would have been obligated to call CPS or 911 right away. He did not, nor did he or Ejak insist that Ethan be sent home. Over the subsequent months, nine civil lawsuits would be filed against the school.

… Ejak (dean of students) had joined the meeting partway through, and it was he who determined there was no “discipline issue.” Had the school decided that Ethan had broken any rules, the meeting might have taken a different course — actions that could have included a suspension from school or a search of Ethan’s backpack. Instead, Ejak went to the geometry classroom, retrieved the backpack, and gave it to Ethan, who said he wanted to continue his day. Hopkins agreed, saying in court that he was worried above all for Ethan’s own safety and did not want him to be alone.

After the meeting with Hopkins, Jehn was revising her plans. She still wanted to come to the barn, she texted Pennock, but now she would be bringing Ethan along. Ethan “can’t be left alone,” and James was working that evening. Pennock lightly suggested Ethan might benefit from “horse therapy.”

“Let’s make him a cowboy,” Pennock texted.

“Lol mom goals for real!” Jehn replied.

Back at work, she ran into her boss in the copy room and told him she needed to find a therapist for Ethan. She passed by Amanda Holland’s desk, showed her the math sheet, and said she felt like a failure as a parent.

At 12:20, she texted Ethan. “You ok?”

“Yah I just got back from lunch.”

“You know you can talk to us and we won’t judge,” Jehn wrote.

“Ik. thank you. I’m sorry for that. I love you.” It was 12:42.

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Also maybe if Michigan had safe-storage laws, but it did not.

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There are no safe-storage laws in Michigan, meaning that even if the Crumbleys did have the SIG Sauer unlocked on the night before the shooting, they wouldn’t have been committing a crime.

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i have 0 sympathy for the parents - they saw the warning signs, were told of what was going on at school and ignored it - bough the kid a gun anyway. whatever happens to them, they brought it on themselves.

I'm all for legal gun rights and the ability for folks to have all the guns they want, but if your kid has issues and you still supply them with a firearm - despite being shown the kid has some need for help, then you have a degree of culpability.

ill be downvoted to oblivion and that is fine.

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Does this logic apply to the black community?

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must prove that the defendant knew of a potentially dangerous situation, that they could have averted harm through ordinary care, and that the disastrous harm to others presented by the circumstances would have been apparent to an ordinary mind — what the attorneys call “foreseeability.”

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That’s definitely achievable in this case. I wonder if/how this will be applied in other cases in the future.

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I think their inaction is reprehensible but in my opinion it amounts to a civil matter and does not rise to a criminal matter.

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Based on the evidence, their actions definitely crossed the line over into criminal activity. In full disclosure, Oldmanbeasley is not an attorney but did get a handjob from a slightly chubby law student so he’s not completely out of his depth either.

yeah, frick these two shitbag parents

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Why is it the parents fault exactly?

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has nothing to do with the kid accessing his parents weapons. you obviously didn't even read the details of the case.

Plenty of the parents or guardians are the first ones merc'ed in these situations, so plenty have been held responsible in a way.

I have no problem with parents being held responsible for the shitty behavior of their kids, especially since so many believe the parents are and should be the end of and be all of influencing their kids. It usually comes out that they knew their kids weren't right, and did F all to alert anyone and just kept appeasing the kids.

Haven't parents already been held financially responsible for plenty of bad acts of their kids?