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Oxford Scientist: It would be "the worst news ever printed" if fossils/life found on mars

Posted on 12/31/18 at 1:35 pm
Posted by HailHailtoMichigan!
Mission Viejo, CA
Member since Mar 2012
74687 posts
Posted on 12/31/18 at 1:35 pm
Why I hope the search for extraterrestrial life finds nothing

It would likely mean "the great filter" (the key obstacle that prevents civilizations from reaching point where they can colonize other planets) is still ahead of us, rather than something we improbably got through in the distant past.

It would mean that various hypotheses for what the great filter is- conditions for life itself, jump from prokaryotic to eukaryotic cells, etc- are all false.

quote:

I hope that our Mars probes discover nothing. It would be good news if we find Mars to be sterile. Dead rocks and lifeless sands would lift my spirit.

Conversely, if we discovered traces of some simple, extinct life-form–some bacteria, some algae–it would be bad news. If we found fossils of something more advanced, perhaps something that looked like the remnants of a trilobite or even the skeleton of a small mammal, it would be very bad news. The more complex the life-form we found, the more depressing the news would be. I would find it interesting, certainly–but a bad omen for the future of the human race.




quote:


Consider the implications of discovering that life had evolved independently on Mars (or some other planet in our solar system). That discovery would suggest that the emergence of life is not very improbable. If it happened independently twice here in our own backyard, it must surely have happened millions of times across the galaxy. This would mean that the Great Filter is less likely to be confronted during the early life of planets and therefore, for us, more likely still to come.

If we discovered some very simple life-forms on Mars, in its soil or under the ice at the polar caps, it would show that the Great Filter must come somewhere after that period in evolution. This would be disturbing, but we might still hope that the Great Filter was located in our past. If we discovered a more advanced life-form, such as some kind of multicellular organism, that would eliminate a much larger set of evolutionary transitions from consideration as the Great Filter. The effect would be to shift the probability more strongly against the hypothesis that the Great Filter is behind us. And if we discovered the fossils of some very complex life-form, such as a ­vertebrate-­like creature, we would have to conclude that this hypothesis is very improbable indeed. It would be by far the worst news ever printed.

quote:


None of this means that we ought to cancel our plans to have a closer look at Mars. If the Red Planet ever harbored life, we might as well find out about it. It might be bad news, but it would tell us something about our place in the universe, our future technological prospects, the existential risks confronting us, and the possibilities for human transformation–issues of considerable importance.

But in the absence of any such evidence, I conclude that the silence of the night sky is golden, and that in the search for extraterrestrial life, no news is good news.



What we WANT, and what finding life on mars would make UNLIKELY:



What we DO NOT WANT, but what finding complex life on Mars would make LIKELY:

Posted by StringedInstruments
Member since Oct 2013
21070 posts
Posted on 12/31/18 at 1:38 pm to
Posted by TigerinATL
Member since Feb 2005
62446 posts
Posted on 12/31/18 at 1:42 pm to
That assumes the great filter means something cataclysmic to civilization. It could be as simple as it's very unlikely for sentience to emerge. Life is a 1 in a trillion chance, Sentient life is 1 in a quadrillion, Sentient life surviving to have both the desire and ability to conquer distant star systems 1 in an even more made up sounding number.
Posted by Walking the Earth
Member since Feb 2013
17464 posts
Posted on 12/31/18 at 1:47 pm to
That doesn't make any sense.

Earth has a pretty extensive fossil record of extinct species so what difference does it make if Mars has one, too?

Posted by keakar
Member since Jan 2017
30152 posts
Posted on 12/31/18 at 1:48 pm to
or.................. or...........................

we had to flee mars from man made global warming that killed the planet and when we landed on earth we crashed and all the tech we brought with us got broken

there ya go libs, your sacred cow can still live in your fantasy land minds if life is found on mars
Posted by Dawgholio
Bugtussle
Member since Oct 2015
13047 posts
Posted on 12/31/18 at 1:49 pm to
Posted by TH03
Mogadishu
Member since Dec 2008
172004 posts
Posted on 12/31/18 at 1:49 pm to
quote:

or.................. or...........................

we had to flee mars from man made global warming that killed the planet and when we landed on earth we crashed and all the tech we brought with us got broken

there ya go libs, your sacred cow can still live in your fantasy land minds if life is found on mars


As soon as I saw you posted, I knew it was something so stupid about liberals because it’s what you think about 24/7.

Get help dude, seriously. Your posts are so pathetic.
Posted by DirtyMikeandtheBoys
Member since May 2011
19467 posts
Posted on 12/31/18 at 1:50 pm to
Pretty sure the great filter is when the species decides that genders can be switched against nature’s intentions thus resulting in a lack of procreation. Boom extinction.
Posted by dawgsjlw
shite hole with your momma
Member since Sep 2014
826 posts
Posted on 12/31/18 at 1:59 pm to
Where do they get the one other odds defying species at?

If anything I think the 2nd scenario is true, where we as humans have not yet crossed that barrier of the great filter. While life is nice, we are not that advanced as a species. I think we as humans have much more evolving to do and I think that there is more intelligent life out there. If you think about it, we are just now getting started in technology. Imagine a civilization that has technology like us for thousands of years (obviously would end up being way more advanced). Imagine the rate we are going at and 1,000 years down the road, or 10,000 years, etc.

If we are the peak of intelligence, then damn, that is pretty sorrowing.
Posted by CoachChappy
Member since May 2013
34324 posts
Posted on 12/31/18 at 2:01 pm to
quote:

That assumes the great filter means something cataclysmic to civilization. It could be as simple as it's very unlikely for sentience to emerge. Life is a 1 in a trillion chance, Sentient life is 1 in a quadrillion, Sentient life surviving to have both the desire and ability to conquer distant star systems 1 in an even more made up sounding number.


This. The great filter is just a theory. There is no reason to fear finding past life on Mars not does it have any bearing on the future of our species.

This alarmist dork is just going for a headline.
Posted by Cump11b
Member since Sep 2018
2026 posts
Posted on 12/31/18 at 2:06 pm to
quote:

If we found fossils of something more advanced, perhaps something that looked like the remnants of a trilobite or even the skeleton of a small mammal, it would be very bad news


Well... if this happened, you could kiss all belief in the church goodbye.
Posted by Cump11b
Member since Sep 2018
2026 posts
Posted on 12/31/18 at 2:09 pm to
quote:

or.................. or...........................

we had to flee mars from man made global warming that killed the planet and when we landed on earth we crashed and all the tech we brought with us got broken

there ya go libs, your sacred cow can still live in your fantasy land minds if life is found on mars



I now feel dumber for reading the nonsense you posted...
Posted by Volvagia
Fort Worth
Member since Mar 2006
53590 posts
Posted on 12/31/18 at 2:11 pm to
I think that’s a bit overstated, just by the existence of bacteria.

For instance: your provided illustrations indicate mass die offs but still existence of life in the event of us behind beyond the filter.

How is finding dead life as the model predicts inherently a negative? It’s neutral evidence at best.

Finding life sentient life anywhere however is cause to pucker up.
This post was edited on 12/31/18 at 2:11 pm
Posted by SundayFunday
Member since Sep 2011
10508 posts
Posted on 12/31/18 at 2:17 pm to
That is a Terribly bold assumption and seemingly based on bad science made by this guy.

Finding extinct life on Mars is by no means confirmation of any great filter theory, especially given the geological history on mars.

IF life ever existed there (and if it is 100% extinct now), it most certainly died out due to loss of Mars' early atmosphere from a lack of internal dynamo producing a protective magnetic field (like Earths)

This person is treating the "great filter" less like a thought exercise/ pure theoretical phenomenon and more like a law of nature. Which it is not.


Now, The great filter could very well be a real event that life of all kinds will have to face one day in 1 of a 1000000 different forms but the example of finding extinct life on One rocky planet with no means of protection against solar radiation or a substantial atmosphere is bad science.
Posted by KosmoCramer
Member since Dec 2007
80723 posts
Posted on 12/31/18 at 2:24 pm to
quote:

I think that’s a bit overstated, just by the existence of bacteria.

For instance: your provided illustrations indicate mass die offs but still existence of life in the event of us behind beyond the filter.

How is finding dead life as the model predicts inherently a negative? It’s neutral evidence at best.

Finding life sentient life anywhere however is cause to pucker up.


The point is if you subscribe to the great filter theory, we'd need to consider ourselves to be the extremely lucky ones. To find multi celled or even highly evolved life one planet from us in our same solar system, the changes is our life form being very special is drastically reduced. It would mean most likely we havent passed through the great filter yet.
This post was edited on 12/31/18 at 2:26 pm
Posted by Volvagia
Fort Worth
Member since Mar 2006
53590 posts
Posted on 12/31/18 at 9:10 pm to
quote:

To find multi celled or even highly evolved life one planet from us in our same solar system, the changes is our life form being very special is drastically reduced.


Not if it’s a dead planet. The prior existence of life, no matter how complex doesn’t imply the great filter is still ahead of us if they are all dead.

Because they have been “filtered”
Posted by stealthy1
Member since Aug 2007
558 posts
Posted on 12/31/18 at 9:17 pm to
Using 2018 logic, if I identify as a Martian, then am I actually a Martian, and can we then thus establish the presence of life on Mars..?

It's all hypothetical of course, since I identify as an Alpha Centaurian, but you see my point.
Posted by KosmoCramer
Member since Dec 2007
80723 posts
Posted on 12/31/18 at 9:19 pm to
quote:

The prior existence of life, no matter how complex doesn’t imply the great filter is still ahead of us if they are all dead.


If they are just as complex as us, it's not a good sign.
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
299716 posts
Posted on 12/31/18 at 9:19 pm to
quote:

Well... if this happened, you could kiss all belief in the church goodbye.


This makes no sense whatsoever
Posted by scottfruget
Member since Nov 2010
3392 posts
Posted on 12/31/18 at 9:21 pm to
Can you imagine having the time for this to be your major concern?
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