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Started By
Message
re: OT Engineers—How Insulating is Bubble Wrap?
Posted on 12/21/22 at 7:41 pm to Galactic Inquisitor
Posted on 12/21/22 at 7:41 pm to Galactic Inquisitor
quote:
That's exactly how it works. There's a reason why Yeti cups are "evacuated cylinders." The vacuum pulled reduces the molecules available to convect within the walls.
The fact that air under a vacuum is a good insulator does not make all other air a bad insulator. If anything it reinforces the point. The vacuum in your yeti cup is simply an improvement.
The low thermal conductivity of air is precisely why aerogels make such good insulators.
The key in all cases is avoiding convective heat loss. While air has very low thermal conductivity, it is also very easily displaced. If I were going to use something like bubble wrap, I’d make sure to wrap it with tape - especially along the open ends. While the air inside the bubbles shouldn’t move, it is quite easy for air between the layers of bubble wrap (you would need multiple layers) to escape via convection.
quote:
As someone above mentioned, an old rag and duct tape will work far better.
I would bet money that several layers of properly sealed bubble wrap will allow less heat loss than an old rag and some duct tape.
2
Posted on 12/21/22 at 7:48 pm to carbon
frick me that page brings back flashbacks of Dr C’s class…
“It’s all Greek to me!”
“It’s all Greek to me!”
Posted on 12/21/22 at 8:30 pm to JudgeHolden
What about expanding foam?
Posted on 12/21/22 at 8:30 pm to BHM
quote:
It may prolong it but without a heat source, it will eventually freeze.
Won’t the metal of the pipe conduct heat from the ground?
Posted on 12/21/22 at 8:34 pm to beerJeep
Not at all, they could be carried.
Posted on 12/21/22 at 8:54 pm to BugAC
Test it. Seal up a water bottle in bubble wrap and put in the freezer overnight.
Posted on 12/21/22 at 8:54 pm to lostinbr
quote:
The low thermal conductivity of air is precisely why aerogels make such good insulators.
A single bubble of 1/4" diameter is nowhere near the same as aerogel. The R value of 1" bubble wrap is 2. Aerogel is above 10. This is an apples to oranges comparison but I get your point.
Posted on 12/21/22 at 9:12 pm to lostinbr
quote:
The key in all cases is avoiding convective heat loss.
Convective or conductive?
Posted on 12/21/22 at 9:13 pm to jamiegla1
Again, as a last resort, bubble wrap will provide some protection, but as the bubble wrap gets cold, the air inside condenses and takes up less volume, making your protection even thinner. It's not ideal.
I like being able to go to bed confident that my pipes won't freeze. I go overkill.
I like being able to go to bed confident that my pipes won't freeze. I go overkill.
Posted on 12/21/22 at 9:14 pm to jamiegla1
quote:
A single bubble of 1/4" diameter is nowhere near the same as aerogel. The R value of 1" bubble wrap is 2. Aerogel is above 10. This is an apples to oranges comparison but I get your point.
Yes, I’m aware. I wasn’t implying that they are anywhere near equivalent. I was simply pointing out that it’s the same general concept.
Posted on 12/21/22 at 9:17 pm to Oilfieldbiology
quote:
Convective or conductive?
Conduction is much more efficient heat transfer method. Evacuated cylinders reduce the conductive cross section of the cup to a thin ring of the internal cup section. With conduction minimized, the convection from the internal to external surface becomes the driving transfer mechanism. A vacuum is pulled during manufacturing to minimize that convective transfer. As such, an evacuated cylinder is a rather simple yet amazing invention.
This post was edited on 12/21/22 at 10:40 pm
Posted on 12/21/22 at 9:24 pm to TripleCrown
quote:
Test it. Seal up a water bottle in bubble wrap and put in the freezer overnight.
Good point. But my pipe will be connected to the soil, which has enormous heat.
Posted on 12/21/22 at 9:28 pm to JudgeHolden
Hard water takes longer to freeze than soft water if that helps at all.
Posted on 12/21/22 at 10:19 pm to Oilfieldbiology
quote:
Convective or conductive?
Convective.
Air has low thermal conductivity but it’s a fluid and thus susceptible to convective heat transfer. When you think about insulation methods that utilize air - double-wall coolers, double-pane windows, foams, aerogels, etc. - the common thread is that they have a structure that prevents air movement within them.
Posted on 12/21/22 at 10:23 pm to lostinbr
quote:
Air has low thermal conductivity but it’s a fluid and thus susceptible to convective heat transfer.
So basically air isn’t conductive but it moves easily, so it can convectively move a lot of heat if a lot of it flows past. Right?
Posted on 12/21/22 at 10:27 pm to Galactic Inquisitor
quote:
an old rag and duct tape
Yeah but what about a new rag?
Posted on 12/21/22 at 10:43 pm to Tbonepatron
Those styrofoam type oval shaped boxes from home stores that attach by a hook from inside them, then can be adjusted/tightened, worked well for me in the Tennessee Valley for several decades
$2 or so
easily removable
last years
can be fit for odd juxtapositioning if needed
oops more expensive now
$2 or so
easily removable
last years
can be fit for odd juxtapositioning if needed
oops more expensive now
This post was edited on 12/21/22 at 10:47 pm
Posted on 12/21/22 at 10:59 pm to JudgeHolden
quote:It is the parts that are exposed to the air that need protection. and if in the ground they need to be below your areas frost line South Alabama is like 6 inches; North Alabama 18 inches; minnesota about 6-8 feet
Good point. But my pipe will be connected to the soil, which has enormous heat.
One other thing it has to be cold for longer... 12 degrees and lower for several hours will freeze. 18 degrees overnight, 22 for several days 32 degrees for a week
one more thing, moving water will not freeze - if you can leave it dripping just a little it shouldnt freeze
better safe than sorry - the damage is caused not when the water in the pipe freezes - it is caused when the water in the pipe THAWS causing expansion then burst
Posted on 12/21/22 at 11:01 pm to JJJimmyJimJames
quote:
the damage is caused not when the water in the pipe freezes - it is caused when the water in the pipe THAWS causing expansion then burs
You oughta not be giving advice on pipes
Posted on 12/21/22 at 11:03 pm to Oilfieldbiology
Vacuum is a better insulator
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