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Message
re: OT Electrician advice needed: running 110v off of 220v line
Posted on 7/7/21 at 3:04 pm to Obtuse1
Posted on 7/7/21 at 3:04 pm to Obtuse1
quote:Unsure until I pull the oven, again.
OK 3 wire or 4 wire 240v circuit?
In the meantime, couldn't I just change the single gang receptacle to a dual-gang, then use an adapter like this? It has a 15a fuse built-in:
240v to 120v adapter
1
Posted on 7/7/21 at 3:05 pm to Specktricity
220 - 221 what ever it takes
Posted on 7/7/21 at 3:06 pm to HubbaBubba
What size breaker (amp size) is feeding this outlet.
How many watts is the new oven?
Need to make sure before you start that you have capacity left in that circuit. Also, what size wire was pulled.
How many watts is the new oven?
Need to make sure before you start that you have capacity left in that circuit. Also, what size wire was pulled.
Posted on 7/7/21 at 3:07 pm to HubbaBubba
Is the breaker for the existing oven either 15A or 20A? If not, then you definitely can't do it without adding a load center to split up the loads.
Without digging into code to see if this is even allowed: if the existing circuit to the oven has a neutral, then you could theoretically add the additional receptacle across one of the lines + neutral. The receptacle can be GFI type (only 120V, 15/20A receptacles in kitchens are required to be GFI, the 240V isn't). The problem is that if you plug in anything of consequence into that receptacle (microwave, blender, coffee maker, etc) then the breaker is liable to trip while that device and the oven are on at the same time. This is especially true if the oven has been on for an extended period of time. This is still an issue if you add a load center to split the 240V circuit into the 240V + 120V circuits.
While it may be more time consuming, you'd be much better off just extending a nearby 20A, 120V circuit serving a nearby receptacle.
Without digging into code to see if this is even allowed: if the existing circuit to the oven has a neutral, then you could theoretically add the additional receptacle across one of the lines + neutral. The receptacle can be GFI type (only 120V, 15/20A receptacles in kitchens are required to be GFI, the 240V isn't). The problem is that if you plug in anything of consequence into that receptacle (microwave, blender, coffee maker, etc) then the breaker is liable to trip while that device and the oven are on at the same time. This is especially true if the oven has been on for an extended period of time. This is still an issue if you add a load center to split the 240V circuit into the 240V + 120V circuits.
While it may be more time consuming, you'd be much better off just extending a nearby 20A, 120V circuit serving a nearby receptacle.
Posted on 7/7/21 at 3:09 pm to Specktricity
quote:
I disagree, if he has an existing 240V circuit then he has at least 3 conductors.
Not necessarily. There are plenty of 2 conductors plus ground 240v circuits in homes.
quote:
He just needs to make sure he sizes the 1 pole breaker correctly for the wire size.
He already said he needs 240v out of the circuit as well which means he needs to leave the circuit intact until the 240v outlet. Then he has to have a breaker in line to protect the 120v circuit (wire and device which I assume will be a duplex receptacle). The box is going to have to be located to meet NEC/Local code for access. Whatever is plugged into the 120v circuit is going to have to not ruan afoul of code for appliances required to be on their own circuit.
Posted on 7/7/21 at 3:10 pm to HubbaBubba
quote:
For various reasons, I want to put a wall plug there on that side.
Short answer. Don't.
Run a separate 120V circuit for whatever you are trying to do.
Posted on 7/7/21 at 3:11 pm to THRILLHO
quote:Thanks. It's 50A dual-breaker.
Is the breaker for the existing oven either 15A or 20A? If not, then you definitely can't do it without adding a load center to split up the loads.
Without digging into code to see if this is even allowed: if the existing circuit to the oven has a neutral, then you could theoretically add the additional receptacle across one of the lines + neutral. The receptacle can be GFI type (only 120V, 15/20A receptacles in kitchens are required to be GFI, the 240V isn't). The problem is that if you plug in anything of consequence into that receptacle (microwave, blender, coffee maker, etc) then the breaker is liable to trip while that device and the oven are on at the same time. This is especially true if the oven has been on for an extended period of time. This is still an issue if you add a load center to split the 240V circuit into the 240V + 120V circuits.
While it may be more time consuming, you'd be much better off just extending a nearby 20A, 120V circuit serving a nearby receptacle.
Posted on 7/7/21 at 3:11 pm to Specktricity
quote:
Your way over thinking this. Just change the breaker to a single pole and replace the receptacle with a 120V. Reuse the existing wire. You will have an extra conductor but that's okay just cap it and move on.
Guessing you’re not an electrician?!?
Posted on 7/7/21 at 3:16 pm to Obtuse1
quote:Thanks. This is why I thought adding a breaker panel in the pantry might be acceptable.
He already said he needs 240v out of the circuit as well which means he needs to leave the circuit intact until the 240v outlet. Then he has to have a breaker in line to protect the 120v circuit (wire and device which I assume will be a duplex receptacle). The box is going to have to be located to meet NEC/Local code for access. Whatever is plugged into the 120v circuit is going to have to not run afoul of code for appliances required to be on their own circuit.
Posted on 7/7/21 at 3:23 pm to Obtuse1
My bad I misread. I didn't realize he still needed the 240V circuit to stay in service. Other posters are correct, you will need a neutral to break off a 120V circuit.
Posted on 7/7/21 at 3:24 pm to HubbaBubba
quote:
Thanks. This is why I thought adding a breaker panel in the pantry might be acceptable.
Is there a reason you aren't just tapping into a current 120v circuit? If you have a 3 conductor plus ground 240v circuit, the newer the home the more likely, you can do what you are talking about (aside from issues of what you want to plug in* and current protection) but unless it is an unusual area you might better going off a current 120v circuit or pulling a new circuit.
Posted on 7/7/21 at 3:26 pm to HubbaBubba
Please let me be first to post this!!
Posted on 7/7/21 at 3:26 pm to TTU97NI
quote:
220 - 221 what ever it takes
FACCCK!!!.
Posted on 7/7/21 at 3:27 pm to crash1211
quote:
crash1211
I suck at life.
At least we all know a good movie reference when we see it.
Posted on 7/7/21 at 3:29 pm to HubbaBubba
You probably have 3 wires in there: a black and red and a green. Just wire up the black since that’s the hot and cap off the red, you won’t need it. Just tuck the green back in the box since you won’t need to ground it. Make sure you turn off the breaker before you work on it.
Posted on 7/7/21 at 3:31 pm to HubbaBubba
quote:
Also, since kitchens require a GFCI, is this even doable at all and meet code?
Code aside, the only safe way to do what you are wanting is to either run a dedicated 120V circuit or tie into an existing branch in the kitchen. It's not necessarily true that every 120V outlet in a kitchen has to be GFCI protected, a dedicated circuit for a built-in microwave for example are usually not GFCI. Of course the NEC was updated for 2021 and it could now be that GFCI/AFCI protection is a must.
Posted on 7/7/21 at 3:34 pm to mwlewis
quote:
You probably have 3 wires in there: a black and red and a green. Just wire up the black since that’s the hot and cap off the red, you won’t need it. Just tuck the green back in the box since you won’t need to ground it. Make sure you turn off the breaker before you work on it.
JFC I am outta this thread.
OP I don't know about the adaptors, not sure if they meet code if they are behind a stove, will only work on a 240v circuit with a neutral and would rewuire a second 240v receptacle to be wired. Just get an electrician. I know that was your plan just trying to determine if you were getting worked on prices but this thread is devolving into dangerous territory or at least code violation territory.
Posted on 7/7/21 at 3:36 pm to HubbaBubba
If what you want to do is add a 110V receptacle to the existing 220V circuit, then this is against code, for two reasons that pop to mind:
1. 110V receptacle and wiring is not rated for the same amperage as the 220V oven breaker (likely either 40A or 50A)
2. If this is an older home then the original oven circuit only has two 'hots' and a ground conductor and no neutral. Using a ground wire as a normal current-carrying conductor is a big no-no.
The right way to do this is to add a new circuit and run new wiring to your 110V receptacle.
Disclosure - not an electrician, just an EE. But I have lot of hands-on experience and none of my house wiring has ever caused a fire. So far.
1. 110V receptacle and wiring is not rated for the same amperage as the 220V oven breaker (likely either 40A or 50A)
2. If this is an older home then the original oven circuit only has two 'hots' and a ground conductor and no neutral. Using a ground wire as a normal current-carrying conductor is a big no-no.
The right way to do this is to add a new circuit and run new wiring to your 110V receptacle.
Disclosure - not an electrician, just an EE. But I have lot of hands-on experience and none of my house wiring has ever caused a fire. So far.
Posted on 7/7/21 at 3:36 pm to mwlewis
Not quite sure what youre asking, but if you just need a 120 v receptacle don't do this. There is no neutral in the case below
If you need a 120 v receptacle just tie into the closest 120 v receptacle in the kitchen. Leave the 240 alone
quote:
You probably have 3 wires in there: a black and red and a green. Just wire up the black since that’s the hot and cap off the red, you won’t need it. Just tuck the green back in the box since you won’t need to ground it. Make sure you turn off the breaker before you work on it.
If you need a 120 v receptacle just tie into the closest 120 v receptacle in the kitchen. Leave the 240 alone
This post was edited on 7/7/21 at 3:38 pm
Posted on 7/7/21 at 3:37 pm to mwlewis
quote:
You probably have 3 wires in there: a black and red and a green. Just wire up the black since that’s the hot and cap off the red, you won’t need it. Just tuck the green back in the box since you won’t need to ground it. Make sure you turn off the breaker before you work on it.
This post was edited on 7/7/21 at 3:38 pm
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