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re: Omnipotence and free will cannot exist together.
Posted on 11/22/18 at 11:11 am to GeauxTigerNation
Posted on 11/22/18 at 11:11 am to GeauxTigerNation
Where does the Bible say omnipotent? Definitely describes an awesome and powerful Creator with access to all knowledge, in poetic language. Don’t tell me what some Tv preacher said.
Posted on 11/22/18 at 11:12 am to GeauxTigerNation
Fore knowledge does not equal causality.
Posted on 11/22/18 at 11:12 am to GeauxTigerNation
quote:
He knew Eve would take the fruit and set them up to fail if he truly knows all. Right?
Maybe. Im not God so I don’t know
Posted on 11/22/18 at 11:18 am to GeauxTigerNation
Omnipotence is myth to help children feel safer.
Free will is relative within your DNA and social constructs.
Some but not 100%.
You get dealt a hand.
Born with silver spoon on long island or born into mountain tribe of goat herders in Kurdistan.
Free will is relative within your DNA and social constructs.
Some but not 100%.
You get dealt a hand.
Born with silver spoon on long island or born into mountain tribe of goat herders in Kurdistan.
This post was edited on 11/22/18 at 11:21 am
Posted on 11/22/18 at 11:22 am to GeauxTigerNation
quote:
It's like the idea of somehow being happy in Heaven if a loved one was burning in hell.
There is much that we dont know. We are purposely limited in thought.
I understand the holdups. The arguments for no God are rational and at the same time just as irrational, just as believing in God.
Many things point to a creator, firsly being where did the first matter come from? How did sentient life come from seemingly nothing?
When I study the complexities of the body, it just doesn’t seem rational to me that such order came from such disorder, especially considering the continuous observation that nature tends towards disorder.
Posted on 11/22/18 at 11:49 am to bamafan1001
Agnosticism is the only belief system that isn't actually full of shite in some way. Admitting that humans do not know and will likely never know is the only rational argument.
Prove me wrong.
Prove me wrong.
This post was edited on 11/22/18 at 11:50 am
Posted on 11/22/18 at 11:55 am to GeauxTigerNation
Omnipotence is all powerful
Omnipresent is always present, unbound by time, place, circumstance
Omniscient is all knowing
I believe we are created in God's image, we possess some of His attributes, but not those listed above - the Onmis. We have intelligence, initiative, imagination, language, etc.
I further believe Adam and Eve possessed what we call free will....did not know the difference of good and evil....didn't even know such existed. They chose and fell and as a result we inherited a bound will, an imperfect will, which God resolved through His Son (Himself, which is AMAZING)...He made reconciliation of His own creation possible).
Just because God knows what I will choose doesn't cause me to make said choice. By the same token, God has the sovereign right to do as He pleases, it is His creation, after all, and I believe we all have a destiny, some healthy, some unhealthy. So, we co-exist with the Father, we are not our own, we belong to Him and unraveling the mystery of providence and will is impossible as one cannot unravel which is not meant to be unraveled.
Omnipresent is always present, unbound by time, place, circumstance
Omniscient is all knowing
I believe we are created in God's image, we possess some of His attributes, but not those listed above - the Onmis. We have intelligence, initiative, imagination, language, etc.
I further believe Adam and Eve possessed what we call free will....did not know the difference of good and evil....didn't even know such existed. They chose and fell and as a result we inherited a bound will, an imperfect will, which God resolved through His Son (Himself, which is AMAZING)...He made reconciliation of His own creation possible).
Just because God knows what I will choose doesn't cause me to make said choice. By the same token, God has the sovereign right to do as He pleases, it is His creation, after all, and I believe we all have a destiny, some healthy, some unhealthy. So, we co-exist with the Father, we are not our own, we belong to Him and unraveling the mystery of providence and will is impossible as one cannot unravel which is not meant to be unraveled.
Posted on 11/22/18 at 11:56 am to GeauxTigerNation
Define free will. I think you mean free choice. You can have free choice to a degree while an authority has complete control.
The sheriff is in total control when you are in the jail cell. But you are free to do whatever you want in that cell.
The sheriff is in total control when you are in the jail cell. But you are free to do whatever you want in that cell.
This post was edited on 11/22/18 at 11:57 am
Posted on 11/22/18 at 11:58 am to genuineLSUtiger
Omnipotence doesn’t necessarily mean that he gives a shite about us. That is not implied in the definition.
Posted on 11/22/18 at 11:58 am to GeauxTigerNation
Why are they mutually exclusive?
Just because God CAN control our actions doesn't mean He does.
Just because God CAN control our actions doesn't mean He does.
Posted on 11/22/18 at 11:59 am to GeauxTigerNation
quote:
If we don't have free will, then everyone who has ever died and gone to hell has done so without a will of his own.
Paul answers your objection in Romans 9 because he knew we’d object.
Adam, our headship sinned as we all would have.
Try to think about God’s glory as greater than human freedom.
Big God, small man.
Posted on 11/22/18 at 12:16 pm to bayoubengals88
19 One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?” 20 But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’”[h] 21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?
Posted on 11/22/18 at 12:16 pm to CoeJ
quote:
Admitting that humans do not know and will likely never know is the only rational argument.
Prove me wrong.
I cant and wont. I have my reasons for believing in God. Complete understanding isn’t one of them.
I respect the opinions ot those who don’t believe. Doesn’t mean they are bad people. Christians are just as flawed as nonbelievers
Posted on 11/22/18 at 12:17 pm to GeauxTigerNation
God created our universe and all celestial objects. He created our solar system and He created the Earth ,our moon and Sun. This is where we have developed time. He is not bound by time. His definition of time confuses those who doesn't understand his paradigm. Think of it as sitting at a train track and watching the engine and cars go by. Then think of watching the train at a distance where you can see the beginning and the end. You see where the train is headed and behind it you can see where it has been. God saw His creation from this view. He wrote the Bible and tried to explain to us how He saw us before we were born and He knows when we will die. He is not bound by time. That doesn't mean that He is controlling our journey. It means that He already knows which way we will go. He knows how many will enter into heaven and how many will not. He tells us openly. People who haven't read the history book that He wrote for us do not understand. He lays out what it was like before creation and what He plans to do after our time on this Earth will end. Nothing that He says has been disproved. We still control our own destination, He already saw which way we would choose to go. 
Posted on 11/22/18 at 12:17 pm to GeauxTigerNation
Unlimited power and free will are mutually exclusive. Omniscience is another topic.
Posted on 11/22/18 at 12:17 pm to GeauxTigerNation
quote:
Omnipotent by definition is the ability to do everything. Even know what will happen.
Ok but does that mean KNOW the future or just a very high understand of cause and effect. I know what will happen to a high level if I burn my finger tip on the iron BUT I dont know exactly how the skin on my finger will behave.
What I know: It'll hurt, i'll flinch saying "ouch", i'll wag it as it'll feel good, and then roll it in my hair as thats what I was told to do as a child as the oils soothes the pain, etc
What I dont know: how much it will scap up, how long it will take to truly heal back to normal, if it will scar up or not, etc.
So omnipotent knows both of the above?
Posted on 11/22/18 at 12:39 pm to GeauxTigerNation
Not true...
Although I own my property, and can legally destroy them...the squirrels run free to do whatever in my pine trees...
Sure I call the exterminator if the ants enter the house...but I haven't slain the squirrels, despite my ability, authority and domain to do so.
If I were to act on them, then sure, their free will is compromised...but it isn't until the choice is made.
Although I own my property, and can legally destroy them...the squirrels run free to do whatever in my pine trees...
Sure I call the exterminator if the ants enter the house...but I haven't slain the squirrels, despite my ability, authority and domain to do so.
If I were to act on them, then sure, their free will is compromised...but it isn't until the choice is made.
Posted on 11/22/18 at 12:41 pm to TOSOV
quote:
Even know what will happen.
That's different...omniscient...although paired with omnipotence in various deities and faiths
Posted on 11/22/18 at 12:43 pm to GeauxTigerNation
There is only the illusion of free will. We are but atoms destined to do whatever results from the rotation and structure of those electrons and protons.
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